Extremely high ALK consumption

ReefHunter006

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Hi All,

SPS dominate system with mostly pieces the size of 2 inch frag plugs. Consuming about 5dkh a day. I assume most of this dkh is precipitating out but I am not certain what to do besides carbon dosing but I doubt I’ll be able to do enough to counteract the high ph significantly. It

60 gallons dosing 140ml esv bionic a day

Everything is healthy.

ph range 8.08-8.42

nitrate 2ppm
Po4 .04

Pictures of apex chart and example frag.
65409898-A517-4B23-AA49-96BC7D6B5129.png
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742BB37E-C74E-44A7-BAFB-5A4DCAEF3989.jpeg
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ReefHunter006

ReefHunter006

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Following to learn.

What are the ca and mg readings?

Also re: ESV B-IONIC, which product?

Your comment about counteracting the high pH, do you mean smoothing out the 0.32ish swing?
Ca 485
Mg 1350

ESV bionic 2 part alk & cal

Yea, I am considering smoothing the ph swing, or at the very least tempering the high side.
 

blasterman

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Uh, which graph is showing a 5dKH delta? Maybe I'm just tired but the alk graph looks fine.

8.4 pH typically requires kalk or a lot of chaeto. Nothing wrong with it if it is.
 
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ReefHunter006

ReefHunter006

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Uh, which graph is showing a 5dKH delta? Maybe I'm just tired but the alk graph looks fine.

8.4 pH typically requires kalk or a lot of chaeto. Nothing wrong with it if it is.
I’m dosing 140mls of esv 2 part in 60 gallons which is about 5dkh.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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If you ae sure it isn't the B-ionic Bicarbonate version (which is half as potent), and you didn't dilute it, then somehow 5 dKH is being used up.

Is that too much? Not necessarily.

If you see no precipitate or sand hardening, then that may not be a problem.

If you want to try reducing demand, then lower the pH and alk by switching to a lower pH alk additive and use less.
 
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Stefaan F

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Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
You could try and lower calcium a bit, dose CO2 or use calcium reactor to bring pH down during the day.
But if your corals are doing great, why would you want to take a risk?
 
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ReefHunter006

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Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
You could try and lower calcium a bit, dose CO2 or use calcium reactor to bring pH down during the day.
But if your corals are doing great, why would you want to take a risk?
I agree with you.
The pictures of this frag are representative of my overall sps growth the last few months. I feel like it’s a healthy progression.

Feb 2021
97277693-A124-4FFE-9D71-65F558BF9D05.png


March 31 2021

7C0A0BD1-63A4-49A6-98C6-2B4168583CA9.png


Today
5E36C923-CAD3-4E13-ADA4-1C229C0E2ADE.jpeg
 
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ReefHunter006

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Reviving this because I need to come up with a solution.

This Alk consumption has gotten out of control to the point that it is raising salinity by .1ppt daily.

The dosing amount has gotten up to 180mls daily in less than 65 gallons of water. Net water is probably only 55ish. That equates to close to 6dkh daily and it only seems to be getting worse.

The dosing lines are placed above a power head.

I am not seeing any cementing of sand.

There is precipitation on my Nero 5s which need to be dipped in vinegar about once a week. However I don’t see the usual white precipitation. They just randomly seize up.

My simplicity pump stopped working last week. Replaced it, the pump was 1.25 years old. Hard to say if connected.
Heaters do have some white precipitation, but it doesn’t seem excessive.

SPS growth is strong,

I am not sure what to do, but it is a challenge to stay in pace with alk demand. Any suggestions or thoughts?
 

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Randy Holmes-Farley

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If you believe the demand is driven by abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, here's my advice on how to deal with it:


1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.
 
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ReefHunter006

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If you believe the demand is driven by abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate, here's my advice on how to deal with it:


1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.

Hi Randy,

Thank you for your response.

I am hesitant to stop dosing for a full 24 hours because just after two hours alk drops by .4-.5. I attached my trident results from a week ago when I turned off dosing. Would you consider this a legitimate concern?

I fear the damage it will cause to all my sps and the amount of money it could cost me if I let the drop continue after stopping the doser.

I also am not 100% that is mostly abiotic precipitation. I have to assume it is a main contributor because there is no sign where the cal and alk are going.

Every day though it seems I need to dose significantly more 2 part. On 6/5 I was dosing 150mls. Today I am dosing 200mls. It just seems to keep increasing day by day.

BACEF93D-67AD-4099-A43A-FB83A6A80E20.png
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I am hesitant to stop dosing for a full 24 hours because just after two hours alk drops by .4-.5. I attached my trident results from a week ago when I turned off dosing. Would you consider this a legitimate concern?

I fear the damage it will cause to all my sps and the amount of money it could cost me if I let the drop continue after stopping the doser.

I also am not 100% that is mostly abiotic precipitation. I have to assume it is a main contributor because there is no sign where the cal and alk are going.

Every day though it seems I need to dose significantly more 2 part. On 6/5 I was dosing 150mls. Today I am dosing 200mls. It just seems to keep increasing day by day.

If abiotic precipitation is the problem, you'll never stop it unless you can block the process. Low alk and pH block it.

Only alternatives are very high phosphate, or chemical additives such as sodium polyacrylate. Those would be experimental, while low alk and/or pH is guaranteed to work.
 
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ReefHunter006

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I had this problem before. Trust Randy’s advice, it works.
I do trust him and have full confidence he is relaying the best advice available. I am just scared that I will kill all my delicate sps if I turn off dosing and dkh drops by an incredible amount in a few short hours.

That’s a hard one to come to terms with fear wise is all.
 
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ReefHunter006

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If abiotic precipitation is the problem, you'll never stop it unless you can block the process. Low alk and pH block it.

Only alternatives are very high phosphate, or chemical additives such as sodium polyacrylate. Those would be experimental, while low alk and/or pH is guaranteed to work.
Thank you, and I don’t want you think I am refuting you.

I have followed you a long time and know your a very valuable resource to the community.

It’s just intimidating seeing alk drop by .5 in two hours. It makes me think it could just free fall down to 6 in that 24 hours and kill all my sps.

Would slowly lowering it to say 7.5 be a compromise or does it have to be a full stop 24 hour?

Or would programming the skimmer to shut off at PH above, say 8.25, be a possible solution?
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I understand the concern. There's just not a perfect solution.

If you want to try a more conservative let the pH drop by using bicarbonate for alk, and possibly even more by adding Co2 if bicarbonate alone doesn't work.
 
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