Fading Corals with Polyp Loss

[Patrick Cox]

I added these corals ~ 4 weeks ago and after a week or so they started fading and losing polyps. What might be reasons for this?

Tank is ~2.5 years old

Parameters...

Salinity: 1.0255 (~34 ppt)

Alk: 8.1
CA: 438
MG: 1376

NO3: 56
PO4: 0.1

When I first added the corals, Alk was about 6 so I slowly increased over a period of a week or two. (My friend's tank was at about 7 and I got the corals from him.). I am dosing Kalk and I also added a little Bionic Pt 1 early on.

Tank is 5' x 2 'x 22" H.

I have two Radion XR15 that have been running about 20% and mounted ~12" above the water level. I have been increasing the lights and they are now up to about 30%.

I have two MP40s that are on opposite ends of the tank and are in Reef crest mode and have been running 40-50%. I have been increasing and I am now up to about 60%.

Let me know if you need more info to help with suggested reasons. My guess is either the light is too low or the nutrients are too high or maybe the Alk change affected them but it has been stable for a couple of weeks.

Thanks and sorry for the poor pictures.

 

[StartingATank]

Bleaching. So many things can cause this. The most usual problem is either lighting, temperature, or parameter changes. I am not a expert in SPS, and only once have been able to successfully keep one alive and growing.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Why are you running your lights so low, no way lights should be at 20%-30%... if you have adequate lights for your tank, then they should be up near 70%-80%-90%. Also IMO the nutrients are quite high for sps corals.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Why are you running your lights so low, no way lights should be at 20%-30%... if you have adequate lights for your tank, then they should be up near 70%-80%-90%. Also IMO the nutrients are quite high for sps corals.

Before I added corals I ran the lights low so as not to encourage algae growth. I am in the process of increasing them but I wasn't sure of target range. But I will keep increasing them.

I have an old par sensor and multi meter but the readings I am getting seem low but it does seem like light is my likely issue. And I do agree with you about nutrients. I am working on that.

Thanks.

 

[willpower]

As the others have mentioned your lighting needs to be increased. I once owned a XR15 and i had it at 100% on a 40 gallon display tank. I measured 250 par at the level of the corals. Even on a small tank with the supplied arm that is what you are getting from the XR15 at 100%.

Otherwise though your phosphate to nitrate level is off. Phosphate is too low for that high of a nitrate level. Try to reduce the nitrates, I am guessing over feeding of fish or coral.

 

[Perry]

Tank looks sterile and corals look malnourished.
Strip system to basics, no socks, nothing but a skimmer. Feed fish frozen foods, mix it up, and feed often. Do not worry about Nutrient levels or anything else other than stable temp, flow, light, and alk. Test alk daily use 2 part to buffer to correct. Lights are not your problem, not right now. You should be able to keep them alive and even healthy with a shop light, seriously... Just take a breath, and take this to simplicity, and allow for the system to call for what it needs. As it does, be there to serve the tanks needs. Nature will balance, we get in the way more often than not. Be well, hope to see the tank take off!!!

 

[Patrick Cox]

Tank looks sterile and corals look malnourished.
Strip system to basics, no socks, nothing but a skimmer. Feed fish frozen foods, mix it up, and feed often. Do not worry about Nutrient levels or anything else other than stable temp, flow, light, and alk. Test alk daily use 2 part to buffer to correct. Lights are not your problem, not right now. You should be able to keep them alive and even healthy with a shop light, seriously... Just take a breath, and take this to simplicity, and allow for the system to call for what it needs. As it does, be there to serve the tanks needs. Nature will balance, we get in the way more often than not. Be well, hope to see the tank take off!!!

Hi,
I appreciate your comments. I am curious what you mean by the tank looks sterile. Doesn't that mean low nutrients? I didn't think my nutrients were low. And I am feeding often. I feed frozen 2-3 times per day and I feed a sheet of nori per day.

Livestock load is...

Power Brown Tang
Yellow Tang
Tomini Tang
Fox Face
Clownfish pair
Diamond Goby

Long tenacle anemone

I also sent a water sample off to ATI so we'll see what they find.

Thanks!

 

[Lagoon Reef Keeper]

XR15 at 20% is just shy of having no light at all. My XR15 at 70% right now in a newer tank my PAR is 60 in sandbed and 120 at surface. You functionally have your sps in the dark. 56 NO3 is quite high, not worried about the number itself per se, but why it’s that high to begin with. Sounds like as a whole the tank is way too new for SPS. Tough putting sensitive corals in a pretty unestablished/new system.

 

[Perry]

By sterile, I mean lack of life, like what a mature reef looks like. I do not mean to offend, just an observation. The feeding sounds awesome. I would employ a KISS until the system calls for it. Another words, set points. They are intended set-points for a fully grown reef, not necessarily a young reef. Like in gardening, over fertilizing, minerals are fertilizer, can shut down plants. If we allow the system to be set at parameters provided by mixing a quality salt, then are set points are likely ideal. For example, my tank is young, so I run alk, ca, mg all at nsw values. I strive for low nutrients, but do not test, instead, I feed my tank, like you. I now can quantify that food is in the system. If I strip things down to no sock, no chemical, or mechanical filtration, except a skimmer, I can now assure that the system is effectively processing nutrients through the mouths in the system, and DOC removal, at least the larger stuff. The smaller stuff, particulate, bacteria, fauna, micro fauna, are now available, and all mouths are being fed, as opposed to stripping through agressive removal, not claiming you are. As far as trace, I think when we feed frozen, we are putting more than ample trace in the system, and trying to play with trace, without a full grown mature reef, is wasteful, and unnecessary. Instead, I propose to sustain these key minerals, trace, nutrients in the system, feeding micro life, and ultimately being skimmed off. More live foods, more contact time, more happy polyps that are only capable of capturing through feeding polyps, and the size is quite small, that particulate in most cases is removed mechanically. So, it can be as difficult or as easy as you want it to be. This approach has helped me tremendously. Best of luck, hope it all works out

 

[Patrick Cox]

XR15 at 20% is just shy of having no light at all. My XR15 at 70% right now in a newer tank my PAR is 60 in sandbed and 120 at surface. You functionally have your sps in the dark. 56 NO3 is quite high, not worried about the number itself per se, but why it’s that high to begin with. Sounds like as a whole the tank is way too new for SPS. Tough putting sensitive corals in a pretty unestablished/new system.

Yes, I made a mistake with the lights. I only had fish in the tank and left the lights low and then didn't realize it when I added these corals. I am in the process of increasing the lights. It might be too late though.

The tank is over 2 year old and has plenty of life to support nitrification and Coraline algae growth so I would be surprised if it is too new to support these SPS.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Patrick Cox]

By sterile, I mean lack of life, like what a mature reef looks like. I do not mean to offend, just an observation. The feeding sounds awesome. I would employ a KISS until the system calls for it. Another words, set points. They are intended set-points for a fully grown reef, not necessarily a young reef. Like in gardening, over fertilizing, minerals are fertilizer, can shut down plants. If we allow the system to be set at parameters provided by mixing a quality salt, then are set points are likely ideal. For example, my tank is young, so I run alk, ca, mg all at nsw values. I strive for low nutrients, but do not test, instead, I feed my tank, like you. I now can quantify that food is in the system. If I strip things down to no sock, no chemical, or mechanical filtration, except a skimmer, I can now assure that the system is effectively processing nutrients through the mouths in the system, and DOC removal, at least the larger stuff. The smaller stuff, particulate, bacteria, fauna, micro fauna, are now available, and all mouths are being fed, as opposed to stripping through agressive removal, not claiming you are. As far as trace, I think when we feed frozen, we are putting more than ample trace in the system, and trying to play with trace, without a full grown mature reef, is wasteful, and unnecessary. Instead, I propose to sustain these key minerals, trace, nutrients in the system, feeding micro life, and ultimately being skimmed off. More live foods, more contact time, more happy polyps that are only capable of capturing through feeding polyps, and the size is quite small, that particulate in most cases is removed mechanically. So, it can be as difficult or as easy as you want it to be. This approach has helped me tremendously. Best of luck, hope it all works out

Thanks for your thoughts and no offense taken. I will keep doing what I am doing and get the lights up to a reasonable level and then see how things go from there.

 

[Lagoon Reef Keeper]

XR15 at 20% is just shy of having no light at all. My XR15 at 70% right now in a newer tank my PAR is 60 in sandbed and 120 at surface. You functionally have your sps in the dark. 56 NO3 is quite high, not worried about the number itself per se, but why it’s that high to begin with. Sounds like as a whole the tank is way too new for SPS. Tough putting sensitive corals in a pretty unestablished/new system.

Yes, I made a mistake with the lights. I only had fish in the tank and left the lights low and then didn't realize it when I added these corals. I am in the process of increasing the lights. It might be too late though.

The tank is over 2 year old and has plenty of life to support nitrification and Coraline algae growth so I would be surprised if it is too new to support these SPS.

Thanks for your comments.

If the lights have been at 20% you definitely never went through a legit biome cycle even though yes it’s 2 years old. Biological it’s probably not all that different from a 2 month old tank. Nitrification is a fraction of what it means to be established. As you crank the lights up you’ll see, make sure you keep up with adding CUC so it doesn’t take over.

 

[Perry]

If the lights have been at 20% you definitely never went through a legit biome cycle even though yes it’s 2 years old. Biological it’s probably not all that different from a 2 month old tank. Nitrification is a fraction of what it means to be established. As you crank the lights up you’ll see, make sure you keep up with adding CUC so it doesn’t take over.

I believe this is not only misunderstood, but not considered in most's playbook. I agree, and will add that lighting with the heat transfer through radiation is another idea that drives the micro-biome as well. I believe that certain lighting is limited on UV A and B and that is perhaps inhibiting some potential in micro life, spawing, as well as indirect feed source. The holobiont bacteria created through the acro community is another miss, the old add one here or there approach. Best to inoculate the system with a haul, and if colonies are available, another great way to get the "unspoken" bacteria in overdrive. Observation facilitates learning through experience, I can only offer this and not here to flex or be right or wrong, just share. Great post, reminds me of something that has been on my mind, thank you.

 

[Lagoon Reef Keeper]

If the lights have been at 20% you definitely never went through a legit biome cycle even though yes it’s 2 years old. Biological it’s probably not all that different from a 2 month old tank. Nitrification is a fraction of what it means to be established. As you crank the lights up you’ll see, make sure you keep up with adding CUC so it doesn’t take over.

I believe this is not only misunderstood, but not considered in most's playbook. I agree, and will add that lighting with the heat transfer through radiation is another idea that drives the micro-biome as well. I believe that certain lighting is limited on UV A and B and that is perhaps inhibiting some potential in micro life, spawing, as well as indirect feed source. The holobiont bacteria created through the acro community is another miss, the old add one here or there approach. Best to inoculate the system with a haul, and if colonies are available, another great way to get the "unspoken" bacteria in overdrive. Observation facilitates learning through experience, I can only offer this and not here to flex or be right or wrong, just share. Great post, reminds me of something that has been on my mind, thank you.

Yeah the biome is so highly complex I think we are just now on the cusp of even understanding it (with aquabiomics and what not) I think most newer reefers get caught up in the nitrogen cycle but sort of neglect the biome cycle, for lack of battery words. (Which takes 100 times longer) I started my tank actually similar to him at 20% with the XR15, however between 20 and now 75% I’ve seen every ugly under the sun but it’s all balancing out.

 

[Patrick Cox]

If the lights have been at 20% you definitely never went through a legit biome cycle even though yes it’s 2 years old. Biological it’s probably not all that different from a 2 month old tank. Nitrification is a fraction of what it means to be established. As you crank the lights up you’ll see, make sure you keep up with adding CUC so it doesn’t take over.

I have a 3rd XR15 that I was planning to add at some point. Should I go ahead and add it now? I suspect I will lose the corals I have now so this will be preparing for the future. Tank is 5'x2' footprint and 22" deep.

Thanks.

 

[Perry]

Patrick, I think the key with lighting is the full spectrum, this is what excites some of the foods that are not present at the moment, again, this is why I made my original suggestion. You can grow acros and keep them healthy under a simple fluorescent shop light, it is not the lighting, it's the intensity, and the fullish spectrum that is being discussed, not necessarily for the acros, for the SYSTEM. Now, will a shop light give crazy growth and color, no, but it is there to remind you that this is one, likely not the MOST important aspects of acropora keeping. It is further down the line, in my opinion of course. I am interviewing Rebel Reef this week, aka Lobster of Justice, we will dissect his system, and not too do anything more than to prove the variety of ways to achieve success. Please feel free to look over the channel and participate as you will. I am only wanting to see you have colorful and healthy acropora, nothing more, nothing less. Be well my friend, I will carry on and not distract anymore from your thread. Happy Reefing

 

[Lagoon Reef Keeper]

If the lights have been at 20% you definitely never went through a legit biome cycle even though yes it’s 2 years old. Biological it’s probably not all that different from a 2 month old tank. Nitrification is a fraction of what it means to be established. As you crank the lights up you’ll see, make sure you keep up with adding CUC so it doesn’t take over.

I have a 3rd XR15 that I was planning to add at some point. Should I go ahead and add it now? I suspect I will lose the corals I have now so this will be preparing for the future. Tank is 5'x2' footprint and 22" deep.

Thanks.

I would get a PAR meter and see what you’re working with now. It’s annoying to buy however it’s worth the 100 bucks. Can be super handy to have. You’ll know better if ya do that what the right moves are.

 

[Patrick Cox]

ok, I just received my water test. Out of range are shown below...

Base and Major Elements were in range.

Should I dose any of these minor elements?

I am thinking about carbon dosing for the high nitrate.

I also just ordered a par meter. I will post results here.

 

[X-37B]

Light needs to be increased. 2 xr15's put out low par at 30%.
I run ab+ on gen 5 blues at 80-100%.
I would turn the 2 up to 100% and add a third.
My current 15.