Faster coral growth with higher pH? | BRStv Investigates

[randyBRS]

Heellllooo Reefers!

Ryan's back on the Investigates topics today with the results of our high/low pH testing! For those who remember, we tried this one before and ran into some issues BUT we're back for round 2!

So without further ado... Will higher pH of ~8.3 grow corals faster than 7.8?

 

[Butuz]

Great video, as always. I am a new reefer and was pleasantly surprised by acro growth I was experiencing, thinking it was the norm, visible changes almost on a daily basis. I attribute that to my ph, which runs in 8.5-8.6 range. Dosing AquaForest Component 1+,2+,3+ plus Acropower. Thanks again for another informative video.

 

[rcpalmer1]

Would running the air intake on the skimmer outside have the same effect as the co2 scrubber?

 

[Jay Z]

Would running the air intake on the skimmer outside have the same effect as the co2 scrubber?

co2 is lower outside than inside, usually around 375. So in theory, outside air gets you around the 400 mark.
Scrubber on top of that could get the numbers lower.

Scrubber alone will be dependent on inside levels (people, animal, plants can affect this)

Outside air should have a filter of some sort for outside pollutants.

Pros and cons to both. Pretty much comes down to what you prefer and what you can install location wise.

I run outside air with inline filters myself to my skimmer and my overflows.

My ph was hard to maintain over the michigan winter months because of my ventless heater in the basement, it is a major co2 producer. After outside air and doubling my system volume, plus 3 tanks on 1 sump with alternating light schedules my ph swing is .13 over a 24 hour period.

 

[TexasTodd]

I'm sure it's very variable, but how long on average does the CO2 media last?

 

[Abhishek]

Great video, as always. I am a new reefer and was pleasantly surprised by acro growth I was experiencing, thinking it was the norm, visible changes almost on a daily basis. I attribute that to my ph, which runs in 8.5-8.6 range. Dosing AquaForest Component 1+,2+,3+ plus Acropower. Thanks again for another informative video.

That is awesome to hear . However just out of my curiosity , what pH probe are you using to measure and how often you calibrate it ? If you haven’t calibrated in the last 2-3 weeks and it’s a hobby grade one like Neptune , will you please calibrate it and take a reading .

8.6 is a little uncommon and often a result of proves going out of calibration .

@randyBRS - excellent topic and discussion . However , I would like to know how often did you calibrate the pH proven during the experiment ? If am serious about pH and want accurate readings and not ballpark , I have found that even with some of the best probes you have to calibrate every few days .

I would certainly chase pH if only I could get a dependable probe that doesn’t go out of calibration often . And am talking about accuracy to decimal
Points because that matters when chasing pH .


Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Jay Z]

That is awesome to hear . However just out of my curiosity , what pH probe are you using to measure and how often you calibrate it ? If you haven’t calibrated in the last 2-3 weeks and it’s a hobby grade one like Neptune , will you please calibrate it and take a reading .

8.6 is a little uncommon and often a result of proves going out of calibration .

@randyBRS - excellent topic and discussion . However , I would like to know how often did you calibrate the pH proven during the experiment ? If am serious about pH and want accurate readings and not ballpark , I have found that even with some of the best probes you have to calibrate every few days .

I would certainly chase pH if only I could get a dependable probe that doesn’t go out of calibration often . And am talking about accuracy to decimal
Points because that matters when chasing pH .


Regards,
Abhishek

Only thing that upsets me about this hobby is the unreliability of testing and monitoring equipment.

 

[Butuz]

That is awesome to hear . However just out of my curiosity , what pH probe are you using to measure and how often you calibrate it ? If you haven’t calibrated in the last 2-3 weeks and it’s a hobby grade one like Neptune , will you please calibrate it and take a reading .

8.6 is a little uncommon and often a result of proves going out of calibration .

@randyBRS - excellent topic and discussion . However , I would like to know how often did you calibrate the pH proven during the experiment ? If am serious about pH and want accurate readings and not ballpark , I have found that even with some of the best probes you have to calibrate every few days .

I would certainly chase pH if only I could get a dependable probe that doesn’t go out of calibration often . And am talking about accuracy to decimal
Points because that matters when chasing pH .


Regards,
Abhishek

Using Hanna PH tester, same measurements after calibration (calibrate it monthly).

 

[Simply__J]

Looking forward to the next video discussing recirculating air through the absorbent media to see if that make a difference.

 

[randyBRS]

However , I would like to know how often did you calibrate the pH proven during the experiment ? If am serious about pH and want accurate readings and not ballpark , I have found that even with some of the best probes you have to calibrate every few days .
I would certainly chase pH if only I could get a dependable probe that doesn’t go out of calibration often . And am talking about accuracy to decimal
Points because that matters when chasing pH .
Regards,
Abhishek

Thanks! There's a difference between calibrating constantly and verifying the calibration. For example, would you feel the need to calibrate your pH probe when every time you put it in 7.01 & 10.01 calibration solution it read exactly 7.01 & 10.01? I can tell you I sure wouldn't.

So that said, as long as I'm using a solid double junction lab grade probe and periodically verifying that it's still reading correctly then I won't calibrate until necessary. In the case of this test, I'm fairly certain that testing methodology that supports this thought process was followed throughout the pH test.

 

[randyBRS]

Only thing that upsets me about this hobby is the unreliability of testing and monitoring equipment.

For sure! Well, there are options out there that are more reliable and accurate which can be used for this hobby, however they come with a more extreme $$ price tag than what I'm willing to pay for a hobby. If I had unlimited funds, I would definitely consider them.

In the meantime, for what we're willing to pay for...I'd say that what we are getting for monitoring and testing is actually a pretty decent deal.

 

[Bfaxi]

I guess I should start looking into this wild swinging I’ve got going on, sounds like most people are more stable than this?

Any recommendations?

 

[hart24601]

Nice job!

I use hydroxide 2 part and run skimmer with outside air for this reason.

Now what I am curious about, high pH with nsw alk vs low pH with elevated alk. I suspect they balance out but would be interesting to see.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

IF?
I voted other.
It is known high calcium and carbonate availability eliminates the effect of nitrates on coral growth.
High growth rates often causes fragile corals, corals with a low density base and high porosity. One also has to make a difference between calcification rate and growth rate. For an aquarium I prefer high density corals as corals will try to grow to the light and fast growth will produce unnatural forms and formations.
The difference between coral growth and Symbiodinium growth and the combination of calcification, growth and Symbiodinium growth.
A high growth rate wile maintaining the same calcification rate may produce very fragile coral colonies.
An aquarium may be buffered at a high or low pH. Within the coral holobiont the pH will not be the same as pH measured in the water column. Local processes will influence the pH in a way it is most suitable , of coarse only when all building materials are available. Assumed that in a marine aquarium pH is stabilized between normal limits the influence on coral growth of pH being kept on the high or low side will be minor if the aquarium is properly buffered.
Calcification is mainly influenced by CO3 2- concentration

 

[Tautog]

Great video as always Randy.
One question—- If I’m keeping my parameters in check, keeping alkalinity, Calcium , Magnesium, temp., Salinity in the proper ranges, it seems to me the only way to keep the Ph up is fresh air. Therefore, the Ph is going to be what it is based on the fresh air circulation in the aquarium room, correct?

 

[aarbutina]

co2 is lower outside than inside, usually around 375. So in theory, outside air gets you around the 400 mark.
Scrubber on top of that could get the numbers lower.

Scrubber alone will be dependent on inside levels (people, animal, plants can affect this)

Outside air should have a filter of some sort for outside pollutants.

Pros and cons to both. Pretty much comes down to what you prefer and what you can install location wise.

I run outside air with inline filters myself to my skimmer and my overflows.

My ph was hard to maintain over the michigan winter months because of my ventless heater in the basement, it is a major co2 producer. After outside air and doubling my system volume, plus 3 tanks on 1 sump with alternating light schedules my ph swing is .13 over a 24 hour period.

What do you use to filter your outside air? I currently run an outside airline without a filter but wouldn’t mind adding one to be safe.

 

[nickkohrn]

I voted for the option for chasing a higher pH. The reason is that I have a Waterbox 100.3 that looks quite baron due to my corals being small frags.

Being in Ohio, it's often too cold or too hot to comfortably leave our windows open. Our apartment is a three-story townhouse, which shelters my wife, our dog, and myself. The windows are closed most days, and the heat or air conditioning is on, depending on the season. This leads me to battle low pH, which fluctuates between 7.4 and 7.8. I have been considering the purchase of a Jumbo Duo CO2 Scrubber, which is the same model used in your experiment. I run a Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 protein skimmer, so I think that the media will last a long time since the skimmer is not too large for my system.

Below, you can see a recent photo of my display tank and how empty it looks. It would be nice to see more growth than what I am currently seeing since it's an SPS-only system. (< 0.25'' per month per coral).

 

[homer1475]

Never saw much increase with the outside air line to the skimmer thing(maybe .02 or .03 increase). I am very curious about the CO2 scubber though. Will have to do a little more research before committing to buy.

 

[don_chuwish]

I can never seem to get above 8.0. Even on a nice day like today with windows open. I have a line pulling external air for the skimmer and have also tried a CO2 scrubber. Both make very little difference.

I have a refugium light and ca/alk dosers going at night too.
Using AquaForest reef salt now, switching to Tropic Marin Pro Reef soon but I don't expect that to change much.

 

[Ferrell]

Not chasing but I am doing a little observation on the effects as well.
Last summer I ran the skimmer air Intake through a window and maintained a good ph of 8.1-8.3 throughout the spring summer and fall but as winter approached I had to bring the line back in but was still able to maintain the same ph. With summer here and the closing of the home my ph has steadily gotten worse over the last few weeks. It was dropping to 7.9 at night and only rising to 8.1 by the end of the photoperiod. Interestingly enough my Alk has been creeping up from 8.6 to 9.1 and I’ve had to cut back the doser until today when I had the chance to reinstall my outside intake.
Just today at the end of the day my ph topped out at 8.33 and I fully expect it to only drop tonight to ~8.1. With that positive result I’m also expecting to see an increase in Alk consumption over the next few days and will readjust my doser back to the original settings.
So in my case I’m expecting higher ph will = higher Alk consumption = more growth. Time will tell.