Feather dusters not looking so good...or are they ok?

[KleineVampir]

It seems like a lot of my feather dusters have lost their crowns. I've had them for about a month and they just keep losing them. I got 6 and now only 2 still have their crowns. Does anybody know if that's a bad sign or just a sign that they're adapting to their new tank? They seemed to be eating since I saw strings of poop coming from them all the time the first few weeks. Haven't been feeding phyto for that reason.

One of them lost its crown and re-grew it over this period of time, but now he never comes out and that's at a time when I'm at 2 out of 6. At one point I had all 6. Also 2 days ago one of the worms that lost his crown recently was partially out of his tube kind of wiggling slowly around. Now I don't see him at all. So what's the deal with these things? This is a 0 water change tank with GHA problems..should be no shortage of algae spores and so forth in the water. Everything else is ok, though the snails seem to be having a hard time. Fish and crabs are fine. I think my nitrates are probably quite high, in fact I better test them now that I mention it.

 

[reef lover]

They lose their crowns to relocate or ill health. Hopefully yours are moving not starving...but a lot of the larger dusters cant sustain long term in our tanks.

 

[KleineVampir]

They lose their crowns to relocate or ill health. Hopefully yours are moving not starving...but a lot of the larger dusters cant sustain long term in our tanks.

Really? And here I thought these were one of the few filter feeders that could actually survive in a tank. Maybe it's best to just not keep very many dusters?

Sad update: One of them did die. I found him curled up on the substrate this morning. It sucks. I am taking steps to get my water quality better though. I found ammonia in the tank. Not a lot, some critters are ok with it. Some are not though.

 

[muzikalmatt]

I can't say I've ever seen poop come out of my feather duster (or coco worm) so I wouldn't necessarily consider that a sign of good health. Placement is important as you want moderate to low flow. I had my feather duster in a higher flow area and it kept retracting until I moved it. I think regular phytoplankton dosing is imporant as well as they are filter feeders after all. I typically broadcast feed Sustainable Aquatics' Live Phyto as well as Reef Nutrition's Phyto Feast every 2-3 days. You might also check to see if any of your other tank inhabitants are bothering or nipping at the feather dusters. Wrasses, shrimp and even some crabs might pick at it. I'm not sure how much water quality affects their health as I've had bouts of high nitrates (20-30ppm) and low alkalinity (6.5 dKH) but I imagine any amount of ammonia is not good for them.

Here's a picture from July of my feather duster and coco worm. The feather duster's tube has probably quadrupled in length since then and the crown has probably doubled.

 

[KleineVampir]

Well what other long, green, and stringy substance could possibly be coming from them? And it was coming from all of them. They all seemed to be eating just fine! I think they must be sensitive to ammonia.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

How much ammonia? Nitrates and phosphates won't hurt them. Consider a larger water change (50% or more) and running GAC.

 

[KleineVampir]

How much ammonia? Nitrates and phosphates won't hurt them. Consider a larger water change (50% or more) and running GAC.

What is GAC? Activated carbon?

There was about .25 according to a test a few days ago. I've only seen one of them actually out the last few days too. It could be that I've gone from 6 to 1 in a matter of a week or two...but I'm hoping at least some of them just lost their crowns and are coming back.

I've been putting in 15 ml of microbacter 7 a day for two days now to try and combat the ammonia that I was seeing for whatever reason. I might decrease the dosage down to 10 ml per day.

Dkh was a little low, like 7. And calcium was high. Don't know how much feather dusters care about dkh of all things.

Is it possible that they starved to death? I wasn't feeding phyto because I saw green strings coming out of them I figured was poop. Or maybe they weren't getting as much out of that as I thought. How necessary is phyto? I was led to believe that it was optional, which led me to the assumption that if you need it it's because you have a very clean tank which definitely wasn't my case.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

GAC = Granular Activated Carbon

I'm guessing you're using API for ammonia testing? Sometimes they give a false 0.25 ppm reading I hear. Not sure what a more reliable test kit would be for ammonia though. Guessing RedSea or Salifert?

Some kind of phytoplankton feeding is necessary. It is a common misconception that they don't need it.

Alkalinity could be the reason, but I never paid much attention to it regarding my feather dusters. So I'm not sure. I still recommend raising it to 8.0 minimum though.

They can grow new crowns but it takes a while and they essentially have no feeding mechanism until it starts growing back again, as I understand it.

 

[KleineVampir]

GAC = Granular Activated Carbon

I'm guessing you're using API for ammonia testing? Sometimes they give a false 0.25 ppm reading I hear. Not sure what a more reliable test kit would be for ammonia though. Guessing RedSea or Salifert?

Some kind of phytoplankton feeding is necessary. It is a common misconception that they don't need it.

Alkalinity could be the reason, but I never paid much attention to it regarding my feather dusters. So I'm not sure. I still recommend raising it to 8.0 minimum though.

They can grow new crowns but it takes a while and they essentially have no feeding mechanism until it starts growing back again, as I understand it.

Well crap. At least now I know, first hand, once and for all, that feather dusters do need phytoplankton! I think they all starved to death minus one of them who seems to be fine..?

Well maybe I'll get a phytoplankton reactor going. But that begs the question: Why wouldn't there be phytoplankton in my tank? That's one thing I'd like to get straight. The phytoplankton reactor is just a bunch of water with a light over it. Why can't my tank do that?

 

[KleineVampir]

By the way the clown came back. I found him hiding in the sump this morning! It's awesome but it makes this look like more of a feather duster specific problem.

 

[KleineVampir]

So yeah it looks like they starved to death. Maybe there is some stuff in the water they can eat but not enough for 6 of them for very long.

Is there anything you can put in an aquarium that can survive off of whatever's in the water? No phyto necessary?

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

You would need a population large enough to breed at least as fast as they are eaten which would be much larger than a tank I am guessing. Unless you are okay with populations so dense the water isn't clear anymore. Pumps would eventually kill a large number of them depending on the size I suspect. They need more than light but I am not sure what else they need. Something dissolved in the water like corals need nitrates, phosphates, alkalinity, and calcium.

People do set up phyto reactors that constantly drip into their tank for a continuous supply. It is more work and I'm not sure how long it would take for such a system to pay off.

 

[KleineVampir]

You would need a population large enough to breed at least as fast as they are eaten which would be much larger than a tank I am guessing. Unless you are okay with populations so dense the water isn't clear anymore. Pumps would eventually kill a large number of them depending on the size I suspect. They need more than light but I am not sure what else they need. Something dissolved in the water like corals need nitrates, phosphates, alkalinity, and calcium.

People do set up phyto reactors that constantly drip into their tank for a continuous supply. It is more work and I'm not sure how long it would take for such a system to pay off.

Yeah, I kinda looked into it. Looks like a lot more trouble than it's worth considering you're adding nutrients to the tank so far as I can tell. That isn't what I was looking for! I was looking for something to make the water better, not just another pet to feed.

Could a photosynthetic clam survive on just whatever's in the water + the light? Or should I just get a sponge? Lol.

 

[User]

They lose their crowns to relocate or ill health. Hopefully yours are moving not starving...but a lot of the larger dusters cant sustain long term in our tanks.

Sure they can- but you need to dose phyto in order for them to feed

 

[reef lover]

Sure they can- but you need to dose phyto in order for them to feed

And dosing the amounts they need to live creates excess nutrients which makes lots of algae and an unhappy tank...which most people wont do so they starve...

 

[User]

And dosing the amounts they need to live creates excess nutrients which makes lots of algae and an unhappy tank...which most people wont do so they starve...

How so?

You obviously want to titrate the dose so there’s a balance between feeding enough and keeping the nutrients down eg- you don’t throw half a pack of frozen cubes in every day, you tailor it to the number of fish, right?

Same for phyto. Dose sparingly, work it up and test to see where your levels are at. Local guys dose a gallon a week into 125 gallon tanks and it’s all good. I’m just about to start dosing 1.5 g a week of home-brew nannochloropsis into my 260g system.

While your doing this, you can use a syringe and airline tubing to spot dose- use far less and they get fed great.

FWIW- have a 5” crown feather duster and a 4” head coco worm I’ve been spot feeding for weeks

 

[reef lover]

How so?

You obviously want to titrate the dose so there’s a balance between feeding enough and keeping the nutrients down eg- you don’t throw half a pack of frozen cubes in every day, you tailor it to the number of fish, right?

Same for phyto. Dose sparingly, work it up and test to see where your levels are at. Local guys dose a gallon a week into 125 gallon tanks and it’s all good. I’m just about to start dosing 1.5 g a week of home-brew nannochloropsis into my 260g system.

While your doing this, you can use a syringe and airline tubing to spot dose- use far less and they get fed great.

FWIW- have a 5” crown feather duster and a 4” head coco worm I’ve been spot feeding for weeks

When youve had them for years get back to me...

 

[User]

When youve had them for years get back to me...

Does dosing phyto in the Danio grow out tanks at work count? 7 years and counting

No change in nutrients attributable to correct phyto dosing

BEsides- if you titrations the does according to feeding load, like I pointed out, you could be housing them for 10 years and nutrients will be near net zero rise due to phyto. If there little to no waste to decompose, where are the nutrients coming from?

In the ‘have them for years’ scenario, how are you sure the nutrient issues are coming from phyto dosing and not nutrient sink in your sand due to left over frozen food? Or the 15 other ways nutrients get out of whack in older tanks?