Fish being treated for ich, not doing well(Thoughts)

[Estringer92]

Last monday my brown tang, kole tang, and one of my clownfish all had ich sacks on the outside of them. I then moved all my fish into a 20 gallon quarintine tank. I did my first cupramin treatment and it rose copper levels to .25 waited 2 days and added a new dose, the copper levels are now .5 all the fish have been doing fine in since they have been moved to the 20 gallon.

Until today when i went to feed the QT the brown tang and yellow tang are out of it. The brown tang is hanging out on the bottom hardly swimming, when it swims it just swims in circles. The yellow tang is doing the same.

Any ideas on why they suddenly started to fall off the deep end?

 

[Estringer92]

Sorry my camera is not that good. But the ich "eggs" have fallen off the day after i moved them to the QT and they were fine. Now while we are waiting out the process to take its course in the main tank for 6 weeks thos 2 are acting weird.

 

[Estringer92]

 

[Estringer92]

Now within the time from the last post to now, the brown tang and yellow tang are lying on there sides just breathing. Not sure what i can do at this point. I did a water change a few seconds ago. Ive been doing 10-15% every other day. Salinity is 1.025 everything else is 0 except nirates is 5-10ppm any ideas on what i can do?

 

[awwinterfall]

did you use prime water conditioner? it cannot be mixed with copper. I would do a 100% water change if they are still alive

 

[Estringer92]

Nothing else was added.

 

[Estringer92]

did you use prime water conditioner? it cannot be mixed with copper. I would do a 100% water change if they are still alive

Negative prime was not used, only thing i did to the QT was add RODI and salt and one small sponge from the display tank for some bacteria. But i will do a 100% anyways just to see. The brown tang is now just swimming at the surface with his head partially out of the water.

 

[Estringer92]

i have a kole tang and 3 clowns with them, They are all fine. just the yellow and brown are bing weird.

 

[sunken3]

i few thoughts.. where's the ammonia at? how's aeration? and how long are you waiting for the salt to mix before using it?

 

[Estringer92]

i few thoughts.. where's the ammonia at? how's aeration? and how long are you waiting for the salt to mix before using it?

Ill check ammonia again, areation all i have set up is a normal HOB filter with no media, and as for the water/salt mixure, i have a 200 GPD RODI system that pumps into 2x 80 gal barrels and one i mix with salt each time its emptied and i keeps a power head in at the bottom to keep it circulating for 2 hours just to make sure its mixed. And a heater that keeps the barrel at 75 degrees.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I assume you are using RODI water to tank Temperature?
Even with frequent water changes. . . What is your level? Tank temp ?
How is their breathing ?
Feeding- what foods are you offering them? Are you able to get Live brine shrimp?
Is their poop normal or white?

 

[sunken3]

unless the fish were too far gone (which it sounds like they weren't), there are only a few common things that could be wrong (and several uncommon). super fresh (literally just mixed) saltwater could be an issue, an ammonia spike, and lack of aeration would be my first guesses (which is why i asked).

I am assuming that your RODI system is still functioning with good filtration (because if it's letting through chloramine or something that could be a problem).

then make sure salt mix is closer to 24 hours old (vs just a few... )

i would then think ammonia (it can spike pretty harsh with a lot of fish and no live rock). I am not sure if cupramine kills good bacteria (if it does, then your main tank sponge may be an issue).

aeration.. i have lost fish because i didn't have enough air in the water.. not all little HOB's will produce enough surface movement to aerate a loaded QT tank.

I personally have been utilizing the TTM method along with cupramine to keep from needing to worry about toxic levels building up and how partial water changes affect my copper levels.

 

[sunken3]

on a side note, your pictures are very cloudy,,, if that is just the tank glass ok.. if that is the water, that could be your problem.

 

[Estringer92]

I assume you are using RODI water to tank Temperature?
Even with frequent water changes. . . What is your level? Tank temp ?
How is their breathing ?
Feeding- what foods are you offering them? Are you able to get Live brine shrimp?
Is their poop normal or white?

Do you mean Ph? 8.2,
Tank temp is 78 rodi water temp is 75.
Their breathing pretty fast while on there side.
I do not have access to live brine shrimp, but i do feed them dry brine shrimp and frozen when not in QT. I also have garlic pellets that the clowns eat as well as sea weed.
I have not seen any white poop.

 

[Estringer92]

unless the fish were too far gone (which it sounds like they weren't), there are only a few common things that could be wrong (and several uncommon). super fresh (literally just mixed) saltwater could be an issue, an ammonia spike, and lack of aeration would be my first guesses (which is why i asked).

I am assuming that your RODI system is still functioning with good filtration (because if it's letting through chloramine or something that could be a problem).

then make sure salt mix is closer to 24 hours old (vs just a few... )

i would then think ammonia (it can spike pretty harsh with a lot of fish and no live rock). I am not sure if cupramine kills good bacteria (if it does, then your main tank sponge may be an issue).

aeration.. i have lost fish because i didn't have enough air in the water.. not all little HOB's will produce enough surface movement to aerate a loaded QT tank.

I personally have been utilizing the TTM method along with cupramine to keep from needing to worry about toxic levels building up and how partial water changes affect my copper levels.

The 80 gallon pre-mix i have is probably a week old, i meant i leave a circulation pump on for 2 hours to get the salt good and mixed.

Ill add a small power head in the QT for some more water flow. Im using a HOB rated for a 75 gallon flows fairly well.

Test ammonia, it is at 0.

Not sure what TTM is. Thank you for the words of wisdom. I did just move the 2 fish being effected into my 40B that has been established without fish for quite some time. Yellow tang is trying to pull back together brown tang im still worried about.

That said there must be something in the water in the 20 gallon tank effecting the fish.

 

[Estringer92]

on a side note, your pictures are very cloudy,,, if that is just the tank glass ok.. if that is the water, that could be your problem.

The picture quality is mostly my phones camera. It has a crack and a few scratches. The tank is pretty clear.

 

[sunken3]

The 80 gallon pre-mix i have is probably a week old, i meant i leave a circulation pump on for 2 hours to get the salt good and mixed.

Ill add a small power head in the QT for some more water flow. Im using a HOB rated for a 75 gallon flows fairly well.

Test ammonia, it is at 0.

Not sure what TTM is. Thank you for the words of wisdom. I did just move the 2 fish being effected into my 40B that has been established without fish for quite some time. Yellow tang is trying to pull back together brown tang im still worried about.

That said there must be something in the water in the 20 gallon tank effecting the fish.

TTM is tank transfer method of ich eradication.. basically you can move fish through a series of small QT tanks every 36-72 hours - in theory if done correctly you time the ich stages and remove them from your fish without the need for medication... I on the other hand use this method with medication - therefore, not only am I increasing my chances to successfully rid ich, but it makes it easier to ensure the correct amount of meds and serves as a 100% water change.

the only downside is you need a lot of tanks, or be willing to clean one out thoroughly every other day, and lots of salt water, because you are doing a 100% water change with each move.

some say it's more stressful on the fish, others say its less. i assume your mileage may vary.. i am in the middle of this now (mostly because I have a lot of fish and am terrible at catching them. i have run a cowfsh, orange beaked file fish, sailfin tang, gem tang, and naso tang so far with no issues.

 

[artieg1]

You definitely need more flow than a HOB. Water flow needs to be lively and robust. Oxygen and ammonia are the two killers in an emergency QT setup. I would perform 25% water change, and do that every 3-4 days, remember to add back copper you are taking out. The copper would not be causing this. Or Ich, really.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Do you mean Ph? 8.2,
Tank temp is 78 rodi water temp is 75.
Their breathing pretty fast while on there side.
I do not have access to live brine shrimp, but i do feed them dry brine shrimp and frozen when not in QT. I also have garlic pellets that the clowns eat as well as sea weed.
I have not seen any white poop.

Increase oxygen if you can even as simple as pump and air stone. Are you adding the ro water at 75 deg to the tank?

 

[Estringer92]

Increase oxygen if you can even as simple as pump and air stone. Are you adding the ro water at 75 deg to the tank?

Will do. Yes 75 degrees is what it goes into the tank as.