Giant Clams could have been Banned in 2016!!!??

[VR28man]

Interesting, in 2016 there was a petition in the US to list all species of Giant Clams as endangered. I believe that would mean that they could not be sold in the US. The petition was turned down.

I'm all for protections for truly endangered species, but it's remarkably easy to get a species listed as endangered, as you can see from this case, based on spurious claims (as I understand it, basically that there's a lot of damage to its habitat in the US. The fact that it's very well aquacultured, and abundant elsewhere, does not seem to matter).

Julian Sprung has addressed this very well, I think:


I'll go through this, and change any judgments I have on this may change after I read it in depth.

ETA: I had a senior moment, I forgot to include the link for the petition and US FWS’ final rejection of it:

http://www.fpir.noaa.gov/PRD/prd_giant_clams.html

 

[VtecGuy88]

Crazy! I'm glad it didn't go through. I have been wanting a maxima for a while now just don't think my tank is mature enough yet. You would think with all the aquacultured clams around now that it wouldn't bother anyone.

 

[tangtime]

Lol petitions.... when is the last time in modern times a petition was actually successful. They literally cannot be enforced no matter how many people “sign” one.

 

[VtecGuy88]

Lol petitions.... when is the last time in modern times a petition was actually successful. They literally cannot be enforced no matter how many people “sign” one.

Good Tidbit. Did not know that.

 

[VR28man]

Lol petitions.... when is the last time in modern times a petition was actually successful. They literally cannot be enforced no matter how many people “sign” one.

Florida gorgonia ventalina collection, circa 1992. This beautiful and perfectly aquaculturable species is essentially nonexistent in the aquaria these days because of this.

Hawaii coral and live rock collection and possession, 2009
Hawaii aquarium collecting, 2017-8
Fiji aquarium collecting, 2018

You will note that the US FWS spent a long time study this particular petition, from one person. And people are making these all the time specifically to stop aquarium collecting .

And my apologies, I didn’t include the link to the official US FWS page on it in the OP. It has been edited.

 

[tangtime]

Hawaii aquarium collecting, 2017-8
Fiji aquarium collecting, 2018

You will note that the US FWS spent a long time study this particular petition. And people are making these all the time specifically to stop aquarium collecting .

They were not based on a petition. They were based on factual data from declining fish populations, reefs bleaching and dieing off, etc on a worldwide basis.

Not some signatures from the ordinary unimportant citizen.

 

[VR28man]

Listen to Julian Spring’s speech in the OP.

A lot of these are from shockingly bad scientific studies, which is no different from this particular position. The Hawaiian coral and fish bans, as well as the Fiji bans, are frankly complete nonsense that are scientifically unsustainable.

There's also no scientific basis for the inability to collect Gorgonia ventalina frags for aquaculture and the aquarium industry in Florida. Julian Sprung has petitioned several times to do so, and been denied for specious reasons.
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/3/inverts

And as I said, this was not a random petition from nobody. US FWS studied this very carefully.

 

[tangtime]

Listen to Julian Spring’s speech.

A lot of these are from shockingly bad scientific studies, which is no different from this particular position. The Hawaiian coral and fish bans are frankly complete nonsense that are scientifically unsustainable.

And as I said, this was not a random petition from nobody. US FWS studied this very carefully.

That’s your opinion.

Julian Sprung has done a lot for the hobby, but isn’t the all knowing master scientist of the world, and realistically is past his prime. What’s happening in this day and age is unprecedented than back in the 80’s and 90’s.

 

[VR28man]

That’s your opinion.

Julian Sprung has done a lot for the hobby, but isn’t the all knowing master scientist of the world, and realistically is past his prime. What’s happening in this day and age is unprecedented than back in the 80’s and 90’s.

Fine. Could you give reasons why regulated collection of corals, or catch-limited collection of aquarium fish (catch limits IMO is necessary), is harmful to Hawaii, and why those bans need to stay? Or could your refute the statements by many scientists, to include Dr. Bruce Carlson, that banning collection in Hawaii is essentially unscientific?

For that matter, if tang (yellow, naso, achilles, convict) collection is banned in Hawaii (as they are as of this moment, I believe), on what basis should it not be banned anywhere else?

of course he's not an all knowing master scientist. Would you be interested in countering his claims about the anti-aquarium movement, or about why Gorgonia ventalina should not be aquacultured?