Going DEEP - The deep sea (stylasterid) concept tank experiment

ISpeakForTheSeas

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(TLDR at bottom)

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any specifics about what feeds these corals need. However, knowing how these species work from an anatomical perspective, and knowing what some of their relatives eat may be helpful for figuring out exactly what to feed them.

Basically, these species have three types of polyps:
1) Gastrozooids (the stomachs of the colony; these are typically relatively large)
2) Dactylozooids (the food gathering/defensive polyps of the colony; these are typically much smaller)
3) Gonophores (the reproductive polyps; almost all Stylasterids are dioecious/gonochoristic, so each colony is either male or female)

Gastrozooids and dactylozooids are the important types here. Essentially, any "prey" needs to be small enough to be taken down by the dactylozooids and ingested by the gastrozooids. From what I can find, the gastropores (the holes the gastrozooids live in) are typically anywhere from ~100-500 microns in diameter (depending on species and the individual pore) and ~3x the diameter of the pore in length (so if the pore is ~150 microns in diameter, then I'd estimate the pore extends into the skeleton ~450 microns in length), and the dactylopores seem to typically be ~1/4 to 1/5 the diameter of the gastropores for Stylasterids (though a few species have substantially smaller or substantially larger dactylopores) and substantially shorter.

Unfortunately, I don't know the sizes of the Stylasterid gastrozooids themselves, so I don't know how large they can expand to be, and I don't know if they would pop out of their pores to feed or if they would prefer to feed while retracted (this would make sense to me given the calcium carbonate skeleton and specialized tubing to hold them, but I don't know for sure). This would likely be helpful information, but, as it is, I'd assume that the food needs to be able to fit into the gastropore (so I'd guess that the food could have a length that's approximately equal to the length of the gastropore tube as long as it's width is smaller than the diameter of the gastropore's opening), and I'd assume that - generally speaking - smaller is better (I'd probably aim to feed foods that are less than or equal to ~1/4-1/2 the estimated gastropore tube length, and no wider than ~3/4 the estimated gastropore diameter).

Based off of other hydrozoans wild diets, I'd assume these would prefer meaty foods (pods, Artemia, rots, etc.); I would not assume they're good at catching these foods, though, so I'd likely offer some live and some minced frozen or something. Regardless, live or not, phyto/gut-loaded feeds would be my go-to.

If you can observe the feedings with a video camera that's powerful enough to see the individual polyps moving about, that would be ideal for confirming if the specimens are feeding or not (telling if they're eating is a good first step; figuring out nutrition and other needs if it's eating but still dies is the next).

If you want the reasonings for these estimates explained, I can do that - I just figure this is long enough as is (especially with the links of relevant info below):
(This last link is a PDF download; it's not about a Stylasterid species, but about a species from a different genus/family in the same suborder.)

Edit: I should add, that last study linked above may be particularly important for regulating healthy colony growth, as when the colony was fed, it produced gastrozooids without producing dactylozooids; when it was not fed, it produced dactylozooids without producing gastrozooids; so to get a healthy colony that's equipped to feed itself (i.e. one with both gastrozooids and dactylozooids), you may need to space out the feedings, only feed certain polyps in the colony, or not feed the colony to complete satiation each feeding.

TLDR; The feeding polyps' holes are typically ~100-500 microns wide and ~3x that width in depth/length. That's a rough estimate of the maximum possible food size for the coral. More realistically, I'd offer foods that are less than or equal to ~1/4-1/2 the depth/length, and no wider than ~3/4 the width. Gut-loaded (with phyto) pods (live or minced) or similar would be my suggestion to try for feeding. Watch the feedings if you can to see if the coral is actually eating.
 
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(TLDR at bottom)

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any specifics about what feeds these corals need. However, knowing how these species work from an anatomical perspective, and knowing what some of their relatives eat may be helpful for figuring out exactly what to feed them.

Basically, these species have three types of polyps:
1) Gastrozooids (the stomachs of the colony; these are typically relatively large)
2) Dactylozooids (the food gathering/defensive polyps of the colony; these are typically much smaller)
3) Gonophores (the reproductive polyps; almost all Stylasterids are dioecious/gonochoristic, so each colony is either male or female)

Gastrozooids and dactylozooids are the important types here. Essentially, any "prey" needs to be small enough to be taken down by the dactylozooids and ingested by the gastrozooids. From what I can find, the gastropores (the holes the gastrozooids live in) are typically anywhere from ~100-500 microns in diameter (depending on species and the individual pore) and ~3x the diameter of the pore in length (so if the pore is ~150 microns in diameter, then I'd estimate the pore extends into the skeleton ~450 microns in length), and the dactylopores seem to typically be ~1/4 to 1/5 the diameter of the gastropores for Stylasterids (though a few species have substantially smaller or substantially larger dactylopores) and substantially shorter.

Unfortunately, I don't know the sizes of the Stylasterid gastrozooids themselves, so I don't know how large they can expand to be, and I don't know if they would pop out of their pores to feed or if they would prefer to feed while retracted (this would make sense to me given the calcium carbonate skeleton and specialized tubing to hold them, but I don't know for sure). This would likely be helpful information, but, as it is, I'd assume that the food needs to be able to fit into the gastropore (so I'd guess that the food could have a length that's approximately equal to the length of the gastropore tube as long as it's width is smaller than the diameter of the gastropore's opening), and I'd assume that - generally speaking - smaller is better (I'd probably aim to feed foods that are less than or equal to ~1/4-1/2 the estimated gastropore tube length, and no wider than ~3/4 the estimated gastropore diameter).

Based off of other hydrozoans wild diets, I'd assume these would prefer meaty foods (pods, Artemia, rots, etc.); I would not assume they're good at catching these foods, though, so I'd likely offer some live and some minced frozen or something. Regardless, live or not, phyto/gut-loaded feeds would be my go-to.

If you can observe the feedings with a video camera that's powerful enough to see the individual polyps moving about, that would be ideal for confirming if the specimens are feeding or not (telling if they're eating is a good first step; figuring out nutrition and other needs if it's eating but still dies is the next).

If you want the reasonings for these estimates explained, I can do that - I just figure this is long enough as is (especially with the links of relevant info below):
(This last link is a PDF download; it's not about a Stylasterid species, but about a species from a different genus/family in the same suborder.)

TLDR; The feeding polyps' holes are typically ~100-500 microns wide and ~3x that width in depth/length. That's a rough estimate of the maximum possible food size for the coral. More realistically, I'd offer foods that are less than or equal to ~1/4-1/2 the depth/length, and no wider than ~3/4 the width. Gut-loaded (with phyto) pods (live or minced) or similar would be my suggestion to try for feeding. Watch the feedings if you can to see if the coral is actually eating.
Wow, thank you for doing some of the heavy lifting here. I would like to provide you with some pics of the Zooids of my specimens.
Greetings,
Flo

20230518_072204.jpg 20230518_072316.jpg 20230518_072238.jpg IMG_20230507_224304_350.jpg 20230505_222632.jpg
 
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One thing that I've learned with keeping Stylasteridae is that they are super sensitive to light. In an aquarium setting, they tend to get overgrown with algae in a matter of days. The goal is to have this tank semi-permanently covered so the stylasterids can be kept im complete darkness for most of the day. I only plan to uncover the tank while working at the desk. So the "reality" of keeping an deep sea tank will be less romantic then it sounds. But the health of the animals comes first.
 

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taricha

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Thanks for posting the detailed pictures of those polyps. It's crazy how different the structure is from the normal corals that we keep.
 
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Hey everyone! Here's a little update. I ordered some live phyto (three different species) as well as Brightwell Aquatics Reef Snow (which should replicate marine snow in the system). Even without it, the system produces quite a bit of organic particles floating in the water column just like marine snow. I've attached a video.

Temps are in check with the use of the TEC-chiller.

Also finished the first water change on the tank. I really like the low evaporation rate due to it being completely closed.

Next month, I will try to colonize it with different types of zooplankton.
Any input is always welcome.

Greetings,
Flo
 

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Hey there!
So a few days ago, I came across a small package of fresh tiggerpods at my LFS and decided to add them. This also markets the point on which I start feeding this system with concentrated live phyto.

Observations:
As of today, there are a ton of pods everywhere. I think the population will regulate itself depending on the food input.

On another note, I was quite surprised to find several small "jellyfish" in the tank (these should be medusa stages of... hydroids maybe?). They must have come in on the rock. They are less then a mm in size so I cannot get a good pic of them. But that is huge for me as this system is really starting to become biologically active.

I'll keep you updated!
 

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If you have live phyto and a pod that has a water-going nauplius stage, then I think you have a good chance of success - at least on meeting nutrient needs.
 
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So everyone, the time has come to add the Stylasterids to the tank. These colonies have been "acclimated" to aquarium conditions for a few months in the sump of my NPS reef tank. I just transferred them to the kreisel tank. Sadly, the space is so limited that I had to remove the rock. I still think it looks quite good. All the pics are taken without any filter just using the phone. Almost looks unreal.
I will keep updating this thread, but for more frequent updates I would encourage you to check out my IG @darksidereefing.
Greetings, Flo
 

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fawadalam4514

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Hey everyone,
this thread is to document my experiments with setting up a system dedicated to keeping stylasterid hydrocorals in a "deep sea" setting.
To my knowledge this has not been done before, so I am happy to contribute this experiment to the reefing community.

Note: This is still a concept tank and should not be dupilicated until the concept has prooven successful.

A little background on myself:
Im a reefer from germany and really into keeping NPS corals and have been doing so for the past tree-ish years.
If you would like to check out my work, you can find my tank on Instagram @darksidereefing.

I am also really interested in keeping stylasterid hydrocorals such as Distichopora and Stylaster. As you might know, there are still no long-term success stories with keeping these animals long term. Hopefully I can contribute to their success in captivity.

The idea:
Many Stylasterids can be found in shallow waters in caves or sheltered spots but also in deeper waters. Ive seen some pics and videos of solitary stylasterid colonies on single rocks near deep sea geological structures in really low flow. The idea of this tank is to replicate a low laminar flow deep water environment with a constant supply of suspended foods.

The tank
For this concept aquarium, I am using a tank originally designed for jellyfish by econlux. This tank differs a bit from the typical jellyfish tanks and can also be equipped with a TEC (peltier) chiller for keeping the aninals cool.


Status of the project
As of now, the tank is up and cycling.

Any ideas or input welcome!

Greetings
Flo
Wow, Flo! This is truly pioneering work in the reefing community. Venturing into uncharted territories like "deep sea" settings is always intriguing. I've seen your Instagram @darksidereefing and the dedication to NPS corals is evident. The challenges and mysteries surrounding stylasterid hydrocorals make your endeavor all the more exciting. Wishing you all the best in this experiment, and looking forward to updates on this unique project. Dive deep and innovate!

Best,
Ahmad
 
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Hey Ahmad,
thank you so much for your reply! I will keep you updated and share my experiences. All for NPS!

Greetings,
Flo
 
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Exciting news everybody!
We finally got zooid extension and growth on the Stylaster!!!!!! I am super happy about the progress. This should be among the first times (if not the first time) ever documented in a private aquarium!

Cheers,
Flo
 

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biophilia

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This is super cool @Gaufl ! Looking forward to seeing how this experiment plays out. If you’re looking for a good variable sized zooplankton food, I’d suggest Golden Pearls which is available from Brine Shrimp Direct in a variety of size ranges. I’ve used the 5-50 micron size and the 50-100 micron size to successfully keep some difficult species (various species of crinoids, Acalycigorgia, etc) long term.

If looking for a bacterioplankton source, you could also consider using the hatch water left over from culturing artemia, though it may be helpful to add a probiotic like Sanolife Mic-F to the hatch water as well.
 
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Hey there!
The tank is still doing very well. I will add some pics from today. Havent noticed much growth but this could also be due to the low temperatures at the moment (about 18°C).
I can still see zooid extension on the specimens (mainly the Stylaster sp.)


Greetings,
Flo

20240115_221840.jpg 20240115_221837.jpg
 

When to mix up fish meal: When was the last time you tried a different brand of food for your reef?

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