Going to Freshwater from Reef

[jasonsingh]

Hi Folks,

My name is Jason Singh (007). I'm 56 years old and have been in this hobby for 30 years. I got hooked when I saw Diamonds Are Forever at the movie theaters when I was 7 years old. I was 7 and it was the 7th 007 film. Hence the connection to aquariums. So, I want to get my 008th tank which will sit in my office. It must be super silent (the quietest on the planet) and 5 foot wide. Everything must be self contained and minimum maintenance, preferably made in USA or Europe (better customer service). My budget will be based on how much I can sell existing equipment since I don't have a job right now - but am working on that - no problem. Any recommendations?

Thanks,

Jason Singh.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Hi Folks,

My name is Jason Singh (007). I'm 56 years old and have been in this hobby for 30 years. I got hooked when I saw Diamonds Are Forever at the movie theaters when I was 7 years old. I was 7 and it was the 7th 007 film. Hence the connection to aquariums. So, I want to get my 008th tank which will sit in my office. It must be super silent (the quietest on the planet) and 5 foot wide. Everything must be self contained and minimum maintenance, preferably made in USA or Europe (better customer service). My budget will be based on how much I can sell existing equipment since I don't have a job right now - but am working on that - no problem. Any recommendations?

Thanks,

Jason Singh.

Keeping things silent will be hard. There's a lot of noisy components in saltwater tanks. You can look into noise reduction techniques such as Herbie vs. Durso weirs which reduce "slurping" sounds, and putting the noisiest components (protein skimmers and pumps) into cabinets, which will reduce the amount of sound, along with cushioning wires and such with foam to reduce vibration induced sounds.

 

[jasonsingh]

Keeping things silent will be hard. There's a lot of noisy components in saltwater tanks. You can look into noise reduction techniques such as Herbie vs. Durso weirs which reduce "slurping" sounds, and putting the noisiest components (protein skimmers and pumps) into cabinets, which will reduce the amount of sound, along with cushioning wires and such with foam to reduce vibration induced sounds.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, this will be freshwater. Amazon forest based.

 

[SDK]

If you are going with a budget planted tank you can cut out the expensive filtration. Invest what cash you have in a decent light and keep the rest simple.

Low tech planted tanks can be absolute show stoppers and need much less maintenance than the high tech versions. When I got back into reefing, it was a pleasant surprise that my reef tank needed less of my attention than my CO2 driven plated aquarium.

Ecology of the Planted Aquarium is a great book that is the Bible for low tech planted tanks. I highly suggest that you read it before you buy anything else.



Good luck and let me know if you have any specific questions. Planted tanks of all sorts have been a passion of mine for 40+ years....

 

[mindme]

High tech planted tanks are a lot of maintenance. Low tech planted tanks are prone to algae.

Good luck. I recommend checking out some of the freshwater forums. There are lots of great people on them just like here.

 

[SDK]

A properly set up and maintained low tech planted aquarium should be one of the least algae prone tanks you will ever keep. I had tanks that were years old and I literally never touched the inside glass. The higher order plants will outcompete the algae....

 

[mindme]

A properly set up and maintained low tech planted aquarium should be one of the least algae prone tanks you will ever keep. I had tanks that were years old and I literally never touched the inside glass. The higher order plants will outcompete the algae....

The issue I ran into was trying to keep the nutrients at the appropriate level. Not enough nutrients = plants die. If it's not balanced in nutrients = algae growth.

Also a factor were my lights, which were pretty strong as it was a t5ho bulbs changed from reef to sunlight.

So rather than trying to constantly balance those things, I went the EI method. I dosed Co2, added way more nutrients than were needed and did a weekly water change to reset the nutrients. It worked and I had success - too much success.

I should say that my tank was also covered in plants. I've seen some nice freshwater planted tanks that are very light on the light and plants and seem to do well with just fish as fertilizer.

 

[Pistol Peet]

All I can say is thank you for the history lessons freshwater tank would be cool as a side tank I never give up reefing for just a freshwater

 

[josh childs]

Pro clear, I just bought their 200 gallon system. Display is 5x2x2 feet. The tank is dead silent, seriously not even a peep.

 

[mindme]

Pro clear, I just bought their 200 gallon system. Display is 5x2x2 feet. The tank is dead silent, seriously not even a peep.

Just finished filling up a 230 today(well, it has about an hour left). I like the tank and it was a great deal compared to others.

 

[saltcats]

Are you amenable to blackwater? That size display tank with a lot of driftwood like tangled tree roots and a few large amazon swords would look gorgeous, either with discus or (my preference!) a large school of your choice of tetra (I like rummynose personally) and a few dwarf cichlids. Red root floater would help with any nutrient issues and are easy to maintain (just pull out any excess and throw away when they start to overcrowd the surface); amazon swords are heavy root feeders so you can keep your nutrient load in the substrate away from algae.

 

[SDK]

The issue I ran into was trying to keep the nutrients at the appropriate level. Not enough nutrients = plants die. If it's not balanced in nutrients = algae growth.

Also a factor were my lights, which were pretty strong as it was a t5ho bulbs changed from reef to sunlight.

So rather than trying to constantly balance those things, I went the EI method. I dosed Co2, added way more nutrients than were needed and did a weekly water change to reset the nutrients. It worked and I had success - too much success.

I should say that my tank was also covered in plants. I've seen some nice freshwater planted tanks that are very light on the light and plants and seem to do well with just fish as fertilizer.

You were trying to straddle the line between low and high tech, which is where you ran into issues. Did you have strong filtration as well?

The Walstad style low tech tank can have strong-ish lighting, but you would normally have light filtration and little or no fertilization other than feeding the fish. In a nutshell;

Start with some ferts/iron in the substrate to give the rooted, vascular plants a head start on the algae

Have some faster growing plants and/or floating plants to take up the nutrients, and rely less on nitrification/heavy biological filtration. The plants will take up the nutrients before they convert to nitrate if not competing with a filter

The nutrients limiting the growth will not cause the plants to die and you don't need to do a balancing act. The plants just grow more slowly without the EI ferts, CO2 and super high light driving them. This creates a win/win of less maintenance and pruning. These tanks thrive on neglect once you get them going.

This also creates pristine water and a really healthy environment for fish. I've had Neon Tetras live over six years like this. Then I started losing track of the original group members because they would breed and self replicate with no intervention. I had other fish that don't normally successfully breed and survive the fry stage in the main tank do so. Dwarf Gouramis, other tetras, corydoras, etc.

I actually had to stop putting more prolific fish like Kribensis into these tanks or I would have 100's in a few months...

 

[vetteguy53081]

Good move.
Bear in mind, it takes ten times longer to stock the tank and totally different equipment. Buy the best you CANT afford hence buying it once. Get quality test equipment, salt , heater and lighting

 

[mindme]

You were trying to straddle the line between low and high tech, which is where you ran into issues. Did you have strong filtration as well?

The Walstad style low tech tank can have strong-ish lighting, but you would normally have light filtration and little or no fertilization other than feeding the fish. In a nutshell;

Start with some ferts/iron in the substrate to give the rooted, vascular plants a head start on the algae

Have some faster growing plants and/or floating plants to take up the nutrients, and rely less on nitrification/heavy biological filtration. The plants will take up the nutrients before they convert to nitrate if not competing with a filter

The nutrients limiting the growth will not cause the plants to die and you don't need to do a balancing act. The plants just grow more slowly without the EI ferts, CO2 and super high light driving them. This creates a win/win of less maintenance and pruning. These tanks thrive on neglect once you get them going.

This also creates pristine water and a really healthy environment for fish. I've had Neon Tetras live over six years like this. Then I started losing track of the original group members because they would breed and self replicate with no intervention. I had other fish that don't normally successfully breed and survive the fry stage in the main tank do so. Dwarf Gouramis, other tetras, corydoras, etc.

I actually had to stop putting more prolific fish like Kribensis into these tanks or I would have 100's in a few months...

Yeah, I think the lights were the issue that slide me into the high tech side. Not sure how to rate filtering, but I had a canister filter.

And then when the plants grew they would strip the water of some nutrients. Coming from the reef side prior, it was really eye opening that the biggest trigger for algae was the lack of balance in the nutrients. Because in the reef hobby, at least 10+ years ago when I first started, it was always get rid of nitrates and phosphates. But in my freshwater tank, I would purposely put both in and that would give me plant growth, but not algae growth. The nutrients would get unbalanced and then it was like the plants stopped growing and then the algae would come.

Also noticed what seemed like a decent relationship between Co2 levels and algae growth. Higher Co2 levels usually kept algae away. However, it's hard to say if it was a real relationship, as by that time I was already doing the EI method. The EI method was awesome. So much red in my plants, and they were lush. But after awhile it's just like ugh, I swear I just trimmed those plants.

I failed multiple times with the plants(lucky they are rather cheap) before going high tech.

So my hats off to those of you who get the low tech versions working well. In the end, I just figured I liked reef tanks better. These days I just have a 3g paludarium. I use the same type of plants in it, but only foreground and midground plants. Just put treated tap water in it. Very humid tank, glass top on. I use an air pump to pump fresh air in and blow on the front glass. No filter at all, just has a pump that powers 2 waterfalls/streams. Plants grew in fast(from seed some of them), but they are soooo much slower than high tech. No algae, but also no critters in, other than like nematodes in the soil. Turning my 25g cube into another paludarium after I put those fish in coral into the 180g.

Here's a short video from about a month ago on the 3g. It was shortly after I added the alternanthera reineckii(the red plants for those who don't know the names). It's grown in quite a bit more. I didn't think I would like the water area being heavily planted, but it's near full and I'm loving it. I just accidentally dropped the baby dwarf tear seeds in it. Should probably update a video soon, looks even better now.