Any solutions to hair algae that won't go away?

[fish farmer]

I read this as - after the manual removal, the scrubber is then keeping the display algae under control/at a minimum going forward because it is growing, and thriving, in its established zone.

So, what are we debating here? That’s what we have been saying all along.

Your vodka dosing does not fix anything, it keeps things under control. If you stop, the algae will come back. Same with the scrubber, and I have tested this numerous times (not voluntarily) on my tank. Scrubber offline, algae returns. Scrubber online, algae is significantly reduced and controlled

I was under the impression that you installed an ATS and all in tank algae disappeared without CUC, manual pulling, etc.

At least that seems to be what @jda is implying.

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Phosphate bound rock. Dealt with it before. Algae turf scrubber can eliminate it and keep it away

Reading all this to learn, how does rock become phosphate bound? Is this common?

 

[VintageReefer]

I was under the impression that you installed an ATS and all in tank algae disappeared without CUC, manual pulling, etc.

At least that seems to be what @jda is implying.

I’m talking about scuba skeets tank/story. For me, I didnt rip clean at all. For me hair algae in the tank started to fade and turn white, yes I did pull it out in some spots to speed the process, and it did not come back.

It did kill chaeto off in the same tank many years ago.

 

[Garf]

I was under the impression that you installed an ATS and all in tank algae disappeared without CUC, manual pulling, etc.

At least that seems to be what @jda is implying.

Problem here is that his tank is not algae free, or anything near it. I don't understand why he can't see it, perhaps his blue lights are too dim, further reducing algal growth.

Reading all this to learn, how does rock become phosphate bound? Is this common?

Phosphate in the water binds to calcium carbonate surfaces and reaches an equilibrium with the water. This binding is reversible so will go back into the water if the level in the water becomes lower. I use this principle here;

Desorbing phosphate from sand with lanthanum.

Finally got around to a hap hazard test for desorbing sand with lanthanum. The sand has been churning around in my fluidised media reactor for a week on a tank currently measuring 0.6 ppm. From previous measurements in the Aragonite adsorption thread, Dan-P kindly calculated my sand had adsorbed...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Problem here is that his tank is not algae free, or anything near it. I don't understand why he can't see it, perhaps his blue lights are too dim, further reducing algal growth.

Phosphate in the water binds to calcium carbonate surfaces and reaches an equilibrium with the water. This binding is reversible so will go back into the water if the level in the water becomes lower. I use this principle here;

Desorbing phosphate from sand with lanthanum.

Finally got around to a hap hazard test for desorbing sand with lanthanum. The sand has been churning around in my fluidised media reactor for a week on a tank currently measuring 0.6 ppm. From previous measurements in the Aragonite adsorption thread, Dan-P kindly calculated my sand had adsorbed...

www.reef2reef.com

Ahhh, makes perfect sense now. Thanks

 

[VintageReefer]

Problem here is that his tank is not algae free, or anything near it. I don't understand why he can't see it, perhaps his blue lights are too dim, further reducing algal growth.

You are stuck in a past thread. Yes I used the term before and you scrutinized pictures and found an algae tuft. My bad. Didn’t know my words were being taken so literally.

My tank like any other does have occasional small spots of algae that forms due to various conditions in those areas. I still do not have to pluck, scrub, scrape, dose, buy more critters etc. the tank is managed and it’s under control and no action is needed by me.

here’s some whites turned up. Is my tank “algae free”? No

Is my tank “algae managed and controlled to a point where I’m extremely happy with the tank and have no manual algae steps I need to perform?” Yes absolutely
Aside from scraping glass. Most people have to scrape glass

 

[Garf]

You are stuck in a past thread. Yes I used the term before and you scrutinized pictures and found an algae tuft. My bad. Didn’t know my words were being taken so literally.

My tank like any other does have occasional small spots of algae that forms due to various conditions in those areas. I still do not have to pluck, scrub, scrape, dose, buy more critters etc. the tank is managed and it’s under control and no action is needed by me.

here’s some whites turned up. Is my tank “algae free”? No

Is my tank “algae managed and controlled to a point where I’m extremely happy with the tank and have no manual algae steps I need to perform?” Yes absolutely
Aside from scraping glass. Most people have to scrape glass

Yeah, looks good. Like I've stated stated previously, a little algae here and there is normal. You are claiming the tiny amount of algae youre producing in your tiny Santa Monica refugium (not a turf scrubber in my book as it looks to be a fleshy macro algae) is responsible. That's ok if you believe that, its fine. My beef is with you convincing others to go down the futile magic scrubber route.

 

[Garf]

Is my tank “algae free”? No

Thanks for confirming that, neither is scuba's, so what are you both going on about?

 

[VintageReefer]

Thanks for confirming that, neither is scuba's, so what are you both going on about?

Properly sized/designed scrubbers can significantly help reduce and control display algae, and are one of many methods available and an option for others that do not want to mess with vodka/carbon dosing, rip cleans, repeated manual scraping / removal etc

And unlike other methods, they have additional benefits as well. I was able to remove my skimmer and stopped needing water changes…the scrubber is the only filtration I need to run my tank, for my model scrubber it takes 10 seconds to harvest, once every 7-10 days.

 

[Garf]

Blue Planet 2, "Green seas" is a good watch. I particularly like the parts where certain animals farm algae, to stop all those pesky herbivores eating their stash. Can someone remind me, what are the nutrient levels in the sea again?

 

[salty joe]

Blue Planet 2, "Green seas" is a good watch. I particularly like the parts where certain animals farm algae,

That sounds super interesting!

Can someone remind me, what are the nutrient levels in the sea again?

I'd guess real low.
I snorkled a reef in the Caribbean adjacent to a development that had treated waste dumping to the sea. The reef was smothered in algae. So yes, I believe elevated nutrients make a huge difference.

 

[VintageReefer]

Yeah, looks good. Like I've stated stated previously, a little algae here and there is normal. You are claiming the tiny amount of algae youre producing in your tiny Santa Monica refugium (not a turf scrubber in my book as it looks to be a fleshy macro algae) is responsible. That's ok if you believe that, its fine. My beef is with you convincing others to go down the futile magic scrubber route.

I produce a cereal bowls worth of algae approx every 7 - 10 days and I’d rather have that in my scrubber and not my display

I normally would wait about 10 days to harvest, but I just happen to have pictures of my harvest on Feb 25 and i harvested again yesterday on March 2, a span of 6 days

Tiny. In 6 days my scrubber pulled enough excess nutrients to grow that algae. If I waited for 10-14 days, the amount would be double. And in the same time my display remained as it always is… over 95% algae free, zero work needed from me aside from cleaning glass and grabbing that handful out of the scrubber, parameters steady at N = 2 and P = .02

 

[Garf]

I produce a cereal bowls worth of algae approx every 7 - 10 days and I’d rather have that in my scrubber and not my display

I normally would wait about 10 days to harvest, but I just happen to have pictures of my harvest on Feb 25 and i harvested again yesterday on March 2, a span of 6 days

Tiny. In 6 days my scrubber pulled enough excess nutrients to grow that algae. And in the same time my display remained as it always is… over 95% algae free, zero work needed from me aside from cleaning glass and grabbing that handful out of the scrubber, parameters steady at N = 2 and P = .02

It's nearly all water in that algae. Dry some in an oven to get "Nori Equivalents"

 

[VintageReefer]

It's nearly all water in that algae. Dry some in an oven to get "Nori Equivalents"

Algae is a plant and it retains water. Your claim was I grow a tiny amount of algae. I showed you what I grew in 6 days.

I, and many others, do not care about nori equivalents. What we care about is desirable results, balanced with the effort needed to get those results.

I’m not pushing some “futile magic”
Almost anyone out there would like to have a tank with results like mine, safely, and only requiring 2 min or less a month removing excess algae from the scrubber

4 - 5 harvests a month x 10 seconds each harvest = < 1 minute a month on algae control

I guess film algae on glass also counts as algae, so to factor in cleaning glass 2x a week at 1 minute each time is 2 minute a week, 8 minutes a month.

In total, with glass cleaning, I’m spending 10 min a month on maintaining my tank. I have no need for water changes, I don’t have to empty stinky skimmer cups, I don’t have to refill dosing containers or monitor or invest in dosing equipment. The results speak for themself I spend my time enjoying my tank instead of having to constantly clean my tank.

 

[Garf]

Algae is a plant and it retains water. Your claim was I grow a tiny amount of algae. I showed you what I grew in 6 days.

I, and many others, do not care about nori equivalents. What we care about is desirable results, balanced with the effort needed to get those results.

I’m not pushing some “futile magic”
Almost anyone out there would like to have a tank with results like mine, safely, and only requiring 2 min or less a month removing excess algae from the scrubber

4 - 5 harvests a month x 10 seconds each harvest = < 1 minute a month on algae control

I guess film algae on glass also counts as algae, so to factor in cleaning glass 2x a week at 1 minute each time is 2 minute a week, 8 minutes a month.

In total, with glass cleaning, I’m spending 10 min a month on maintaining my tank

Ok. Lol

 

[Reefering1]

I read this as - after the manual removal, the scrubber is then keeping the display algae under control/at a minimum going forward because it is growing, and thriving, in its established zone.

So, what are we debating here? That’s what we have been saying all along.

Your vodka dosing does not fix anything, it keeps things under control. If you stop, the algae will come back. Same with the scrubber, and I have tested this numerous times (not voluntarily) on my tank. Scrubber offline, algae returns. Scrubber online, algae is significantly reduced and controlled

Many tools available, no silver bullets. Tell me how many scrubbers do I need if I feed 6-7 cubes of frozen and 2 sheets of nori a day? Where's your partner @ScubaSkeets ? He can't speak for himself?

 

[ScubaSkeets]

Where's your partner @ScubaSkeets ? He can't speak for himself?

How ironic:

Please be respectful. @jda doesn't claim to be a expert because he has 10k. He is considered a expert by others because he grows the crap out of coral And has for a long time.

Where's your partner @jda? He can't speak for himself?
What a bunch of hypocritical tools we have here.

I wasn't going to bother responding to your posts. But they'll follow.

 

[ScubaSkeets]

Please be respectful. @jda doesn't claim to be a expert because he has 10k. He is considered a expert by others because he grows the crap out of coral And has for a long time. You on the other hand, have "tried everything" but didn't know what pom pom is... Like a dog with a bone, Trying to force your "revelation" onto everyone with no discretion to application. It's tiring, surely you can have something to say that isn't ats propaganda. Even this thread. Op tried your suggestion and how is that going? Did't fix anything did it. Open your mind to other possibilities

You're right. He doesn't claim to be an expert because he has 10K. But, unless he is not including himself in this quote:

"You credit the scrubber despite every expert constantly telling you that the consumers were doing the work with the alalgae."

and seeing that there are only two or three others (maybe more...but certainly not EVERY expert that he is claiming), that are saying that they dont work (at least as much as some of us are claiming) I'd say he was counting himself as one of those experts.


He grows the crap out of coral, so the people who have had success with ATSs are wrong? Its not just @VintageReefer and I who claim to have success, although it seems we are the most vocal about it.

Not knowing what pom pom is laughable? Whatever. I never claimed that I know everything reef related...and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I doubt you do too. Besides, I could have simply googled it to save myself for being mocked for it...but I gotta get my post counts up to gain that respectable, prestigious count badge.

I'm "forcing" this on people?
How does that even make sense? And how is it any different than people suggesting manual removal, adding HUNDREDS of snails, or any other method for that matter? Oh yeah...because THOSE solutions work and the ATS does not, right? I mean I STILL have those green rocks (why aren't those hundreds of snails, and herbivores not wiping those clean if THAT is the solution?)

Propaganda? What on earth do I have to gain by spreading this so-called ATS propaganda?

OP did not try my suggestion. He used pom pom and it was pointed out that that might not have been as effective as using a mesh screen.

Dealing with multiple bouts of long hair algae in the past and trying "everything" (before knowing what a pom pom is) and then seeing my (anecdotal) success with the ATS, and THEN being told that I don't know what I'm talking after providing proof (even with those ugly green rocks) is tiring as well.

The burden of proof lies with the positive claim. @VintageReefer and I have provided the proof. While the burden of proof isnt on the ATS naysayers, they have provided nothing other than that they don't work.

 

[ScubaSkeets]

As a demonstration of patience, I will take the time to explain one possibility... you seemed receptive our last conversation, let's see how open your mind is...
You been having gha issue for a "long time". Nutrients test low. You manually removed twice and it grew back. Then a 3rd time and added the scrubber, and hasn't returned since(in problematic scale anyway).
So we all agree that gha will consume nutrients fast enough for them to test low/undetectable, even though there is plenty. when you remove it all, it grows back because it isn't there to consume the nutrients. If you were to clean the rocks and leave it on back glass, most regrowth will favor established gha zone- stucking those nutrients out the water before new growth explodes on the rocks that you just cleaned. When people suggest manual removal, it's a continuing effort for several(many) months while available real estate fills in- not removing it 2 times during a "long time" period. Herbivores are instrumental,all they do is "manual removal". So you removed a bunch of algea and scrubber mopped up the liberated nutrients, slowing regrowth. This would be similar to me removing algea and giving a extra dose of vodka or performing water change, or adding corals/ consumers. Did the scrubber fix the problem? I say no, it was a tool used in conjunction with manual removal to get a handle on things. There are many tools.It's not gone, just under control. What do you think will happen if you start missing water change, add several fish, or overfeed for months to curb aggression? It will regrow in full force. This is why I like vodka, there is no capacity limit. Add 10 fish at once and feed like a madman, up dose preemptively- tank doesn't blink. That is my preferred tool but I don't push it on people. If they are serious, they will do the research and find their way. Not willing to research/ give effort? They will fail, with acropora anyways. Patience and perseverance will prevail

Thank you.

So is the entire reason for this debate is whether or not an ATS actually REMOVES long hair algae vice keeping it at bay ONCE it is manually removed? I can agree with that...up to a point.

When I manually removed it the last time, I was not able to manually remove it all as some rocks had coral/anenomes on them. I manually cleaned a little more than half of the rocks) After a while, those rocks became free of long hair algae as well.

If you stopped using vodka, or stopped manually removing, or your CUC died off when there was no more alage to eat, or stopped ANY other method of removing algae from the DT, would the algae return? Yes?...then how is that different than using an ATS? Every single method is a tool!

Your preferred "tool" is vodka. So and sos preferred method is 100s of snails. My preferred method is an ATS. So why is using an ATS such a bone of contention

With the exception of doing very small water changes (a gallon or two) to test my water change system, I rarely do water changes. Several months in-between doing a ~10% change.
I am heavily stocked and I, in my opinion, overfeed. But my N and P remain at under 10 and 0.03-0.08 respectively

 

[Reefering1]