Growing plants to lower Co2 in the home.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that room plants won’t help noticeably, unless it is a greenhouse. The plants would need to add mass (tissue) in an amount similar to the amount of food you eat to offset your CO2. Then there are gas stoves and other sources.

 

[Jeeperz]

I used to run my greenhouse at 1500-2000 ppm with a co2 burner. Definitely helped growth. I was fine at those levels, my friend would get dizzy at anything above 1000ppm or so. Just something to keep in mind. I try to leave windows partially open in my house, especially in rooms that have tanks. 3 people, 1 dog, 3 cats probably add quite a bit of co2.

 

[HB AL]

If your in one of the states that legalized weed you could start growing alot of plants in the tank room. Then when they flower you get a bonus, plus you probably wont even worry about ph anymore

 

[Scott.h]

If it's only the tank you're worrying about maybe try a recirculating CO2 scrubber for your skimmer? BRS did a video on that earlier this summer.
If it often gets up in the 800 range I would start to look into it for my own and families sake. Those levels start to effect you too.

Co2 media isn’t cheap and in my opinion wouldn’t be any more effective then running tubing to the outside. I would use media if I lived in an apartment where I could drill holes in the side of the house or something.

 

[Scott.h]

I've known growers who pumped CO2 into their plant room to increase yield but they were not living in the same room.

Great question & discussion points on this thread!

That’s exactly what got me thinking about this. I definitely wouldn’t add co2 into a house where it was inhabited, as that’s not healthy. A barn or something, definitely.

 

[Scott.h]

I had the same issue and have a bunch of large indoor plants very near my tank. Tried CO2 scrubber which eventually plugged up the venturi on my skimmer. I ran a 3/8 tube from the venture intake out under the window by putting a weather strip to fill the rest of the gap. Solved the problem.

I have a 7/8” tube from my skimmer inlet to the outside. And I won’t say it doesn’t help but my fish room is in the basement. Co2 is heavier so it appears it would tend to settle in the basement. Smaller house, modern air tight house, multiple people and pets, I’m not sure, but per my water volume one skimmer plumbed outside just isn’t enough.

 

[Scott.h]

I suspect this could be calculated relatively easily, but the overall effect would require you to pick the plants you'd want to grow and measure their growth rate by weight. One could then estimate the total carbon uptake based on the average carbon content of the plant biomass. Plants respire CO2 continuously throughout the night, so you'd likely want to illuminate the plants during the time that the reef tank lights were off. I suppose that could create some issues with the plant lights putting too much light into the reef tank during off-hours for the fish and other critters to go into their normal night mode, but that could be controlled by light-block curtains.

By the way - you won't be wasting much heat with a HRV (heat recovery ventilation) unit. That's the primary point - the units incorporate a heat exchanger so that the outgoing heated air warms the incoming cold air. The efficiency of these units for doing this heat exchange is typically published in the specifications.

I think a controlled experiment with how much co2 the plants absorb would be feasible. The always changing variable would be how much co2 is being emitted. It really depends on how cold it is outside. The harder the furnace runs, and how many people are in the house drastically effects those numbers. I think I’m going to check into the HRV.

 

[Scott.h]

I'm w/ "Dkeller" re: air exchangers and living in Minnesota I had same issues. Our new home has one of these https://www.venmar.ca/101-air-exchangers-s10-ervplus.html

But as many here say "don't chase #s" (unless it's affecting your tank)

Ok so I’m looking into that product specifically. How is yours hooked up to the outside? How much air does that actually move? And how much do you think it effects your heating bill? Also do you have it set on a timer? How often does it run?

 

[Jeeperz]

I'm curious why how much a natural gas furnace runs is considered? They don't vent into the house but outside and most modern ones also pull intake air? Unless the burner is rusted out it shouldn't have an effect on in home co2. Same with a water heater but they are not sealed except the direct vent style.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Ok so I’m looking into that product specifically. How is yours hooked up to the outside? How much air does that actually move? And how much do you think it effects your heating bill? Also do you have it set on a timer? How often does it run?

I've installed a few for different folks, but I don't have one myself. That's because I value "vintage" - or more accurately, "old", so my house was built in 1940 and isn't well sealed.

When I've installed one of these, I typically recommend that the incoming air duct be run through the wall to the outside in the same manner that one would install a dryer vent. That's because I live in the South, and installing one of these to pull in attic air will defeat some of the purpose of the heat recovery feature since the attic air is typically quite hot around here.

However, in a colder climate the conclusion might be different. In a situation like that, the attic air is likely to be a good deal warmer than the outdoor air, so the output air into the interior space will be a good deal warmer than if it was pulled in directly from the outdoors.

 

[Mical]

Ok so I’m looking into that product specifically. How is yours hooked up to the outside? How much air does that actually move? And how much do you think it effects your heating bill? Also do you have it set on a timer? How often does it run?

There are two ducts outside, 1 incoming & 1 outgoing. The incoming goes into the exchanger then into furnace duct work. It has 3 settings, Off, Min & Max - exactly how much CFM, I don't have exact specs. We usually run at min so it's quiet. At "max" you can feel a breeze in almost all rooms. You set it to current outside temps (seasonally) & when on, say late fall to spring, it's on constantly. It's hard to say what it did to my heating bill as it has dropped about $40 over the last year (and in Mn it's not getting warmer...lol) There are two filters inside that need cleaning once a year (takes minutes) and HEPA filters are available.

 

[Scott.h]

I'm curious why how much a natural gas furnace runs is considered? They don't vent into the house but outside and most modern ones also pull intake air? Unless the burner is rusted out it shouldn't have an effect on in home co2. Same with a water heater but they are not sealed except the direct vent style.

It plays a big roll. Let’s say it’s 60 degrees and all of the windows are open upstairs. (I have a basement, where my furnace is located. My co2 would be approximately 490. If I were to close the windows and turn the furnace on set to 70 degrees in a 1500 square foot house the co2 levels would probably be 800 by the time the furnace shut off. And that’s with a 6” vent next to the furnace going to the attic, which I’m not convinced helps a lot since co2 is heavier.

 

[Scott.h]

I've installed a few for different folks, but I don't have one myself. That's because I value "vintage" - or more accurately, "old", so my house was built in 1940 and isn't well sealed.

When I've installed one of these, I typically recommend that the incoming air duct be run through the wall to the outside in the same manner that one would install a dryer vent. That's because I live in the South, and installing one of these to pull in attic air will defeat some of the purpose of the heat recovery feature since the attic air is typically quite hot around here.

However, in a colder climate the conclusion might be different. In a situation like that, the attic air is likely to be a good deal warmer than the outdoor air, so the output air into the interior space will be a good deal warmer than if it was pulled in directly from the outdoors.

That makes sense. What about using an existing basement window such as one of those roll around portable ac units that need a window cutout to exhaust?

 

[EmdeReef]

If your primary concern is ph, I would suggest starting with a low concentration of kalk in your Topoff water. CO2 scrubber on your skimmer should help, however may not always be enough on its own. Depending on the gas exchange of your tank’s surface etc.

I’ve found that on my larger tanks a CO2 scrubber was not enough on its own to keep stable ph during the day. the CO2 in my apt averages 600- 800, going up to 1300-1500 when cooking.

Another thing to keep in mind is soda lime (CO2 scrubbing media), for example I’ve found the new BRS media to be completely ineffective (at least the batches I bought). Very different results when using soda lime bought from one one of the vet supply sites.

 

[Scott.h]

There are two ducts outside, 1 incoming & 1 outgoing. The incoming goes into the exchanger then into furnace duct work. It has 3 settings, Off, Min & Max - exactly how much CFM, I don't have exact specs. We usually run at min so it's quiet. At "max" you can feel a breeze in almost all rooms. You set it to current outside temps (seasonally) & when on, say late fall to spring, it's on constantly. It's hard to say what it did to my heating bill as it has dropped about $40 over the last year (and in Mn it's not getting warmer...lol) There are two filters inside that need cleaning once a year (takes minutes) and HEPA filters are available.

So basically it utilizes the existing duct work and would be about the same as leaving a few windows cracked? It would be nice if it had a stand alone heating element to warm the incoming air at the same time

 

[Mical]

So basically it utilizes the existing duct work and would be about the same as leaving a few windows cracked? It would be nice if it had a stand alone heating element to warm the incoming air at the same time

It's more like having all the windows open but at indoor temps. We like the circulation (even in closed rooms & walk in closets) and it helps keep temps fairly level between 3 floors (split level home)

 

[Scott.h]

If your primary concern is ph, I would suggest starting with a low concentration of kalk in your Topoff water. CO2 scrubber on your skimmer should help, however may not always be enough on its own. Depending on the gas exchange of your tank’s surface etc.

I’ve found that on my larger tanks a CO2 scrubber was not enough on its own to keep stable ph during the day. the CO2 in my apt averages 600- 800, going up to 1300-1500 when cooking.

Another thing to keep in mind is soda lime (CO2 scrubbing media), for example I’ve found the new BRS media to be completely ineffective (at least the batches I bought). Very different results when using soda lime bought from one one of the vet supply sites.

Ive tried kalk in the past. But kalk only raises temporarily, and leaves behind contaminates that needs to be removed with water changes. And I try to utilize the triton method as much as possible.

If you were to bubble your fish tank water outside the ph would (should) be 8.3. I tried this. Plumbing outside air into the skimmer eliminates co2 the same as using a co2 scrubber. But depending on the overall water volume one skimmer inlet will only accomplish so much. Running a second skimmer would probably help this cause. And I’ve thought about running an air pump/stone from outside as well.

Keep in mind my ph in winter is never really below 7.8, and this isn’t a matter of being able to keep corals. Honestly it has more to do with the overall health of humans of then anything.

At the end of the day it’s going to cost. Plants and the lighting cost associated, air exchanger or windows left cracked is going to make the heating and a/c cost higher.

I’m going to run some plants and try to run some sort of an air exchanger to exhaust the air right after the lights out. And see what happens going into winter.

 

[Scott.h]

It's more like having all the windows open but at indoor temps. We like the circulation (even in closed rooms & walk in closets) and it helps keep temps fairly level between 3 floors (split level home)

So does the unit run only when the furnace is on? So the furnace is heating outside air instead of recirculating just inside air? If that unit was on high and the furnace was not running you would feel a cool breeze in winter time, correct? I wonder what percentage of outside air it exchanges?

 

[EmdeReef]

I hear you, I got a CO2 meter for myself to keep getting reminded to open the window when it gets to about 1000ppm.

I wouldn’t worry about kalk residue, especially if you get pharma grade - plus it will help keep alk and ca.

here’s a couple studies, but keep in mind all are in closed small spaces and very controlled environments:

https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/2017/17/matecconf_iscee2017_05004.pdf

(PDF) The Influence of House Plants on Indoor CO2

PDF | This study aimed at determining the effect of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the internal environment of different indoor plants. Spathiphyllum... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[Mical]

So does the unit run only when the furnace is on? So the furnace is heating outside air instead of recirculating just inside air? If that unit was on high and the furnace was not running you would feel a cool breeze in winter time, correct? I wonder what percentage of outside air it exchanges?

It runs constantly even when furnace is off. On high it moves quite a bit of air but not like a cool breeze, it's definitely noticeable amount vs min setting. Basically the furnace runs as it would normally and the exchanger adds fresh outside air to it downstream of furnace so it's not directly heating outside cold air. % wise you'ld have to ask the installer/contractor.