Guys...I need your help...

[dexterie]

I’ve been battling these algae for two months and I don’t see any results.
I have a Red Sea max nano and I don’t have space for a reactor. I’ve been using a bag of phosguard for three weeks, to no effect. I dose nopox (minimum dose) as well..
I tried it all. Dark therapy for three days, no water changes, less light, water changes. Bigger water changes. I scrubbed the rocks and tried to vacuum most of the debris. Nothing works.
I don’t have a phosphate test but I measured it weeks ago and it was low (I take the algae are using it).
I’m getting desperate. Should I restart? The tank is 11 months..almost 1 year old. I wanna get rid of this fluffy mess...it’s just very ugly. (Ofc the lady has been complaining like there’s no tomorrow)...

Any ideas? Thank you!

 

[Lasse]

Have you any idea of your PO4 and NO3 levels? And I´m not concerned about high ones - I´m concerned about to low measurements! It looks like a type that somebody call cyano, somebody dino and I call "very difficult to say - but its not like normal microalgae. i have succeeded to defeat this type with help of mechanical cleaning and adding a large herd of hermits.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[dexterie]

Have you any idea of your PO4 and NO3 levels? And I´m not concerned about high ones - I´m concerned about to low measurements! It looks like a type that somebody call cyano, somebody dino and I call "very difficult to say - but its not like normal microalgae. i have succeeded to defeat this type with help of mechanical cleaning and adding a large herd of hermits.

Sincerely Lasse

I don’t have PO4 but when I measured (borrower from a friend), it was low. I took it was because the algae were using it. NO3 is between 0 and 2. So, low level.
I tried scrubbing it every two days...no results. It just grows back overnight.
I’m losing my energy... it’s killing snails and one shrimp is gone too. I think it takes too much O2 from the water. I redirected the power head so it makes more movement at the surface.

 

[Retro Reefer]

This is typical from a newer tank and will pass with time.. looks like turf algae and maybe some cyano on the sand bed.. Get yourself a large CUC, 1 or 2 snails per gallon and as Lasse said a whole herd of hermits.. I would vacuum out what you can during water changes.. make sure your make up water is completely pure, do you use RO/DI water?

 

[Lasse]

I did another trick in one nano tank. I took a huge bunch of chaeto algae and put it in the middle of the tank. The dammed - not wanted - algae start to infect that bunch instead. Every week I took upp the bunch of Chaeto - clean it in tap water - and back. Lazy man´s mechanical cleaning tool

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Adele]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Out of control algae is is a top 3 bummer.
It concerns me that some of you cuc is dying. That’s indicative of Dino’s, but it’s hard to tell for sure by the photo. Trying methods of control without knows what you up against can be a waste of time and effort. Your tank is young so it could certainly just be the uglies but if you can either buy a cheap microscope or try the Dino test as outlined in this thread.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...ou-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/unread
Determine what you have, then attacking with an appropriate treatment will save you a lot of frustration.
In the meantime get some carbon in your tank to counter any potential toxins that may be building up.
Hope this helps. Keep us posted.

 

[dexterie]

This is typical from a newer tank and will pass with time.. looks like turf algae and maybe some cyano on the sand bed.. Get yourself a large CUC, 1 or 2 snails per gallon and as Lasse said a whole herd of hermits.. I would vacuum out what you can during water changes.. make sure your make up water is completely pure, do you use RO/DI water?

Yes, I use rodi water.
I’ll add more to the CC. thing is that two of my turbos already died... I have 8 hermits. I’ll try and get more this week.
Thank you

 

[dexterie]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Out of control algae is is a top 3 bummer.
It concerns me that some of you cuc is dying. That’s indicative of Dino’s, but it’s hard to tell for sure by the photo. Trying methods of control without knows what you up against can be a waste of time and effort. Your tank is young so it could certainly just be the uglies but if you can either buy a cheap microscope or try the Dino test as outlined in this thread.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/unread
Determine what you have, then attacking with an appropriate treatment will save you a lot of frustration.
In the meantime get some carbon in your tank to counter any potential toxins that may be building up.
Hope this helps. Keep us posted.

At first I though there was some Dino...but it wasn’t the case.. it’s just some fluffy algae. No air bubbles, nothing.. just fur. In some areas of the tank it’s darker, in some other areas it’s of a more white colour, and detaches more easily fro the rocks (I take it’s dead algae in this state).
Let’s see how this goes

 

[dexterie]

Should I continue with the water changes or not?

 

[Lasse]

As long as you do not know what type of algae it is - it looks to much a form of cyano (for me) - I would stop the NoPOx directly (and if it was me - the phosguard too). You have done what is saying in the school book - not help. Maybe it is time to change strategy.

Active carbon for a while is a good idea too.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Retro Reefer]

Yes, I use rodi water.
I’ll add more to the CC. thing is that two of my turbos already died... I have 8 hermits. I’ll try and get more this week.
Thank you

Snails can be sensitive to water conditions and their deaths could be an indication something off in your water.. Make sure your RO/DI System is properly maintained and supplied with sufficient pressure, also make sure it’s effective for your water source, for example if your source water is high in chloramines a typical 4 stage RO system is not going to be sufficient.. a lot of algae fuel can pass through a RO system not matched to your source water. For me it means a 6 stage RO system with booster pump and constant maintenance to keep It producing completely pure water.

 

[Jose Mayo]

A microscope photo, as already suggested, would be of great help for identification; this macro aspect could be of Lyngbya sp, a genus of filamentous cyanobacteria, which produces toxins.

Under the microscope, this aspect of "stacked coins" in the filaments is very suggestive of the species.

Regards

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I would also get a PO4 test kit and provide an actual number to the level. Just saying they are low doesn't allow others to really know what the level is. Some would say .1 is low while others would say .01 is low.

 

[Lasse]

A microscope photo, as already suggested, would be of great help for identification; this macro aspect could be of Lyngbya sp, a genus of filamentous cyanobacteria, which produces toxins.

Under the microscope, this aspect of "stacked coins" in the filaments is very suggestive of the species.

Regards

Thanks a lot

As i have suspected many times - looks like a normal GHA - but is a form of Cyanobacteria. The microscope pictures indicate that it is not a species that is able of nitrogen fixing. Am I wrong or right?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Jose Mayo]

Thanks a lot

As i have suspected many times - looks like a normal GHA - but is a form of Cyanobacteria. The microscope pictures indicate that it is not a species that is able of nitrogen fixing. Am I wrong or right?

Sincerely Lasse

Half to half (literally) - Even without owning heterocysts, Lyngbya sp can fix nitrogen gas at high rates in the light period, but is unable to fix nitrogen in the dark. This is one of the differences of Lyngbya sp in relation to Calothrix sp, another filamentous cyanobacteria, that is carrier of heterocysts and is able to fix nitrogen also in the dark.

Regards

 

[Lasse]

Half to half (literally) - Even without owning heterocysts, Lyngbya sp can fix nitrogen gas at high rates in the light period, but is unable to fix nitrogen in the dark. This is one of the differences of Lyngbya sp in relation to Calothrix sp, another filamentous cyanobacteria, that is carrier of heterocysts and is able to fix nitrogen also in the dark.

Regards

Can you explain how Lyngbya can fix N2 without heterocysts and producing oxygen at the same time? It is opposite to all I have learned before. Where in the cellstructure does it happen? I understand how the mat building species manage to do it - but do these forms mats?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Jose Mayo]

Yes, thinking about the inactivation of nitrogenase by oxygen I was also in doubt, but it seems to be what happens:

Diurnal nitrogen fixation in tropical marine cyanobacteria: a comparison between adjacent communities of non-heterocystous Lyngbya sp. and heterocystous Calothrix sp.

Aerobic nitrogen fixation by Lyngbya sp., a marine tropical cyanobacterium

Regards

 

[Jose Mayo]

Another interesting article (full), on the theme:

N2 Fixation by non-heterocystous cyanobacteria

Regards

 

[Jose Mayo]

So then, @dexterie , the intention in bringing in the images was only to contribute to the identification of the filamentous structures that are growing in your aquarium, which can be either GHA or cyanobacteria, as already explained.

That said, positive identification (especially microscopy) would be useful, since the approach to the problem can be diametrically opposite, as the case may be; if these structures are algae, the reduction of nitrate and phosphate nutrients could be useful, but if they are cyanobacteria (which even has the ability to fix atmospheric N2 dissolved in water, as seen in posted articles), often what is due do is nitrate dosage, to stimulate the competition of other bacterial species and rebalance the microbiota of the aquarium.

In addition, I apologize for having deviated from the purpose for which you created the topic, entering through these paths that my curiosity and my appreciation for biology, sometimes drags me.

Regards

 

[Lasse]

Another interesting article (full), on the theme:

N2 Fixation by non-heterocystous cyanobacteria

Regards

Thank you for that article. One chapter about cyano mats!

Sincerely Lasse