Gyre flow - is there something I'm missing to get these things dialed in?

JCATL

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Is there something I'm missing when it comes to getting good flow out of these gyre pumps? I have a 90g display with two Icecap 4000s on a Hydros WaveEngine. I've previously had them at the opposite ends of the tank facing each other. The flow was... ok? They seemed to pummel anything that was down at about a 45 degree angle from them, but otherwise the flow was, not so great. I picked up some of the flow directors and have tried rotating the cages, but it doesn't seem to get much better.

I moved them to the back glass, opposite sides, just below my light mounts to see if it was better and I think it might actually be worse. Now it doesn't seem like anything is getting pummeled, but that's likely because it's pummeling the back of my rockscape where there aren't any coral. Ideally I'd like the flow to to be highest at the top, pushing across the top 6" or so of the water column where it hits the opposite glass and flows down. This is what videos seem to indicate they do really well, but I can't seem to get them there.

Any advice/suggestions? I'm happy to post some pics if it helps.
 

Dan_P

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Is there something I'm missing when it comes to getting good flow out of these gyre pumps? I have a 90g display with two Icecap 4000s on a Hydros WaveEngine. I've previously had them at the opposite ends of the tank facing each other. The flow was... ok? They seemed to pummel anything that was down at about a 45 degree angle from them, but otherwise the flow was, not so great. I picked up some of the flow directors and have tried rotating the cages, but it doesn't seem to get much better.

I moved them to the back glass, opposite sides, just below my light mounts to see if it was better and I think it might actually be worse. Now it doesn't seem like anything is getting pummeled, but that's likely because it's pummeling the back of my rockscape where there aren't any coral. Ideally I'd like the flow to to be highest at the top, pushing across the top 6" or so of the water column where it hits the opposite glass and flows down. This is what videos seem to indicate they do really well, but I can't seem to get them there.

Any advice/suggestions? I'm happy to post some pics if it helps.
Is there only one speed or can you program these things? Pummeling is OK to clean surfaces of debris, but only for short periods and not too often I would say.
 

homer1475

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I hate gyres, but for other reasons besides flow. They are great for laminar flow across the surface.


I used to run mine on the center tower style overflow. I ran it forward, then reverse blowing across the top of the water, shooting into the front glass(ala most videos you see on them). Worked great for me, but as I stated, I hate them for other reasons and do not own one anymore.
 

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  • How is the schedule setup for the 4k
  • Speed limit range
  • Do you have invert rotation or allow reverse set
  • What dose the status icons show for outputs - is the % in the range you set
  • What flow pattern do you have selected in the schedule
  • Are you using the correct blades
  • How do you have the cages set as it relates to direction (need to adjust so the blades push in the direction you want)
  • How close to the surface are they
I run both 4k and a xf280 on a wave engine le and they move water. It comes down to the schedule and flow pattern with cage direction mixed in. I thought I had a problem with one of them and it was a simple as the invert rotation not being set. I think it is a stupid setting but since they control different devices they need that option to allow cross platform or device operability.

In any case look at the output, schedule, and cage direction and spend 15 minutes or so adjusting while you are sitting in front of the tank. Use a higher power level while doing so such that you can see how the display reactions without tearing up soft or lps corals.
 
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JCATL

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Is there only one speed or can you program these things? Pummeling is OK to clean surfaces of debris, but only for short periods and not too often I would say.
I have them on a Hydros wave engine, so very programable. Pummeling is definitely relative to the speed I have them set to, but the direction is more the issue than the speed. I feel like if I cut the power to say 60% the flow in the non-pummeled area of the tank would be minimal.
 

homer1475

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Easiest way to see how they create flow, drop some pellets into the direct flow of them. You can see how the flow circulates throughout the tank. Even flakes work too, so long as your fish don't nab them up before they make it through the cycle.
 
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JCATL

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  • How is the schedule setup for the 4k
  • Speed limit range
  • Do you have invert rotation or allow reverse set
  • What dose the status icons show for outputs - is the % in the range you set
  • What flow pattern do you have selected in the schedule
  • Are you using the correct blades
  • How do you have the cages set as it relates to direction (need to adjust so the blades push in the direction you want)
  • How close to the surface are they
I run both 4k and a xf280 on a wave engine le and they move water. It comes down to the schedule and flow pattern with cage direction mixed in. I thought I had a problem with one of them and it was a simple as the invert rotation not being set. I think it is a stupid setting but since they control different devices they need that option to allow cross platform or device operability.

In any case look at the output, schedule, and cage direction and spend 15 minutes or so adjusting while you are sitting in front of the tank. Use a higher power level while doing so such that you can see how the display reactions without tearing up soft or lps corals.

Answering your questions in order.
1. Currently set to "constant flow" simply because I'm testing. I'd like something a little more dynamic/random, once I feel like I have them in a good state flow-direction wise.
2. Pump outputs - 25%-100% - Schedule speed: 100
3. I do not have invert rotation enabled, I DO have allow reverse set.
4. My pumps no longer show the % on the status menu. I think this is the result of a recent app/firmware update. They show watts, both are at 7.6w currently.
5. As mentioned above, currently just constant flow
6. This is a good question, I'm using the orange ones that came on them. I have the black ones as well.
7. Without drawing anything, if you looked at the open area of the cage and assumed the center of the open span is where the flow would come from, that's what I have parallel with the surface. Though I have tweaked it quite a bit to to test.
8. Maybe 2-3 inches below the surface, just deep enough that I didn't get any cavitation when they were active.

I also purchased the flow director snap-on things, but they don't' seem to help.

I do recall at one point when initially setting them up, the flow speed was pretty intense, like I thought it would going to push water out of the tank it was so intense, but it's nothing like that at all, even with the above settings.

Do you think there would be any benefit in just wiping my current output and schedule settings and starting over? Your success with them makes me feel like I've just borked a setting somewhere and need a clean slate.

Thanks!!
 

areefer01

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Answering your questions in order.
1. Currently set to "constant flow" simply because I'm testing. I'd like something a little more dynamic/random, once I feel like I have them in a good state flow-direction wise.

Change it and see if the respected gyres are pushing the water and creating flow.

2. Pump outputs - 25%-100% - Schedule speed: 100
3. I do not have invert rotation enabled, I DO have allow reverse set.

If you put your hand in front of the gyre are you feeling water pushing against your hand? You can do a quick test and set invert rotation to on, upload the change, and see if there is a difference between.

4. My pumps no longer show the % on the status menu. I think this is the result of a recent app/firmware update. They show watts, both are at 7.6w currently.

Interesting mine show an icon now with a percent symbol. Not sure how I got that.

5. As mentioned above, currently just constant flow
6. This is a good question, I'm using the orange ones that came on them. I have the black ones as well.

Orange and black are the same just color difference. I was interested if the blades are installed pushing water forward or backward as you can place them on different sides. Or at least I can in my xf280. If you have left them as is ignore this part. Sorry to confuse.

7. Without drawing anything, if you looked at the open area of the cage and assumed the center of the open span is where the flow would come from, that's what I have parallel with the surface. Though I have tweaked it quite a bit to to test.
8. Maybe 2-3 inches below the surface, just deep enough that I didn't get any cavitation when they were active.

You can adjust them so that the cages point up a few degrees and see if that helps the surface agitation. I've accidently had mine too high of an angle and shot water out of the tank so be careful. Just small changes and see what it does.

Do you think there would be any benefit in just wiping my current output and schedule settings and starting over? Your success with them makes me feel like I've just borked a setting somewhere and need a clean slate.

Not sure about success but they do create flow once dialed in for the display. It took me a bit of time to get it sorted out especially because I'm mixing gyres (4k, xf280). To be honest what I did was pull up an old salt bucket, phone, and sat there making changes with their app, checking the display for flow and reaction, placing my hand in front of the gyre, look at the surface, and make changes.


You are welcome. The main thing I'm trying to convey is that you will just need to make some adjustments to test until you find what is working. I rotate through gyre mode, lps, and nutrient export through out the day. Some of them only run one side while the other is off.
 
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JCATL

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Change it and see if the respected gyres are pushing the water and creating flow.



If you put your hand in front of the gyre are you feeling water pushing against your hand? You can do a quick test and set invert rotation to on, upload the change, and see if there is a difference between.



Interesting mine show an icon now with a percent symbol. Not sure how I got that.



Orange and black are the same just color difference. I was interested if the blades are installed pushing water forward or backward as you can place them on different sides. Or at least I can in my xf280. If you have left them as is ignore this part. Sorry to confuse.



You can adjust them so that the cages point up a few degrees and see if that helps the surface agitation. I've accidently had mine too high of an angle and shot water out of the tank so be careful. Just small changes and see what it does.



Not sure about success but they do create flow once dialed in for the display. It took me a bit of time to get it sorted out especially because I'm mixing gyres (4k, xf280). To be honest what I did was pull up an old salt bucket, phone, and sat there making changes with their app, checking the display for flow and reaction, placing my hand in front of the gyre, look at the surface, and make changes.



You are welcome. The main thing I'm trying to convey is that you will just need to make some adjustments to test until you find what is working. I rotate through gyre mode, lps, and nutrient export through out the day. Some of them only run one side while the other is off.

So I went home at lunch and did some tinkering. I deleted the schedule and pump outputs, added them back and tried just constant flow at 100% with reverse enabled and... I thought it might blow the front off the tank! It was an absurd amount of flow. It was so much that it was creating cavitation on the glass opposite the pumps. So the reset definitely did something from an overall power standpoint. Previously at 100% in constant flow my pumps were only at around 7w each. Now at 100% they were in the 20s. No idea what I did to nerf them like that, but at least they're back to what feels normal.

Reverse was also a game changer in having it match my expectations of flow across the top of the water column.

Now I think it's just a matter of tweaking the angle of the cages a small bit and creating a 24 hour schedule based on several different flow patterns, as you mentioned you do. I've been trying to get by with a single one and even with proper flow output it doesn't seem like that's going to do the trick.

Thanks so much for your help!
 

Dan_P

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Easiest way to see how they create flow, drop some pellets into the direct flow of them. You can see how the flow circulates throughout the tank. Even flakes work too, so long as your fish don't nab them up before they make it through the cycle.
Brilliant ^^^
 

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Can you guys explain some of these flows?

What does 'reverse' mean with gyres? Reversing my gyres would be putting flow against my glass since the gyres are on the glass so I don't really understand that, unless you're pointing the flow downwards into the sand.

My gyres are set up in A formation, but would like to try others if they work better. 120g 5ft.

1681702603057.png
 
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JCATL

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Can you guys explain some of these flows?

What does 'reverse' mean with gyres? Reversing my gyres would be putting flow against my glass since the gyres are on the glass so I don't really understand that, unless you're pointing the flow downwards into the sand.

My gyres are set up in A formation, but would like to try others if they work better. 120g 5ft.

It's basically the reverse of what you see in those pics. Instead of initiating out of the gyre across the top of the water, hitting the glass and pushing down, it goes down into the sand first. Obviously what you have in the tank impacts that flow pattern, but that's generally what it's shooting for. You won't get nearly as much upward flow on the opposite glass though, because your rock work and sand cut it down significantly, but it'll also push your sand towards the front of the tank if the flow is too high.

I'm still annoyed by mine and while I've gotten them good enough for now, i'm not satisfied. I'm alternating between normal and reverse, though at very low power to keep from pushing stuff around too much. IME, you really have to play with flow patters and power output to get what you want.
 

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