Hammer Not Happy :(

[907_Reefer]

Hey all, so we've had this Plum Hammer in the tank for 62 days now, he has been great but noticed him not as big for the past 3-4 days, and partially closed up all day today. Pics below. Not sure what is up :/

- New 55 gal tank started up 78 days ago
- 91 lbs live rock, 120 lbs live sand
- Cycled with Dr. Tims
- Lighting dual Radion XR 15 Blue
- Run on Mobius AB+ at 39% schedule
- Last WC 15% 27 days ago
- Red Sea Coral Pro Salt
- Dosing 2 part Alk/Ca twice per week
- Corals fed Reef Roids every 4-5 days
- Fish fed flakes and frozen shrimp

Params (RS for Red Sea kit, H for Hanna Checkers):

Temp: 77.5 F +/- 0.5 (Inkbird controlled)
SG: 1.025 (calibrated refractrometer w/35ppt)
NH3: 0-0.1 (RS)
NO2: 0 (RS)
NO3: 2-3 * (RS, has been 0 for about 40 days)
pH: 8.3 (RS & H)
dKH: 8.8 (H)
PO4: ~0.5 (H) **
Ca: 469 (H)

* We have been battling a low Nitrate problem (0) and haven't been able to keep Zoas but most other corals are fine (minus an acan echinata and candy cane). I just started noticing nitrates yesterday at 2-3 for the first time in 40 days of reading 0. Could the hammer be struggling due to low nitrates for over a month and not able to recover? His Bi-Color hammer neighbor is looking great but only been in the tank 14 days. We did lose a few zoa frags as well.

** Just got a Hanna Phosphate ULR checker, read 0.49 last night and 0.61 this afternoon. I have done lots of research on checker procedures and am fairly confident in my methods (but no one is perfect of course).. I'll run more tests but it didn't come with too many reagent pouches!!

Other tank notes:

Same day as the last WC (27 days) I had used E-Marco to glue one frag, got spooked by the white milky residue that leaks out when you work it in water, read about its potential to drive your skimmer crazy, spike Alk and pH, stopped at one frag, WC 15% and dKH spiked to 10.4 next day but has settled back around 8.5-9. No pH or Skimmer freak-outs. Just to note.

The last WC was the first use of Red Sea salt, initial startup and prior changes were Instant Ocean.

Fish are all great, clown pair, lawnmower blenny, pistol shrimp and goby, plus our latest additions a royal gramma and melanurus wrasse (those 2 been in for 14 days).

If I'm missing any other key points or anything let me know! And thanks!!

 

[907_Reefer]

Moved him down to the sand bed for the time being.. :/

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Could be a number of things, but my best guess is it's starving.

 

[907_Reefer]

I'm not sure how fast or slow that would show, but he did go from, full head but not as expanded, to basically missing half, in 24 hours. I know he gets some shrimp but I haven't target fed other than reef roids for all. I have increased shrimp feeding for 2-3 weeks to battle the low nitrates also, but can't guarantee how much he has gotten specifically.. :/

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

It's the low nitrates I refer to when I say it's starving...
Euphyllia can look perfect right up to the moment they succumb to something like damage, malnutrition, etc. that was incurred weeks before.
Wall varieties seem especially susceptible to sudden decline.

 

[907_Reefer]

Gotcha. Well nitrates are on the rise slightly and he is a little more out than earlier.. we will see... Appreciate the input!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tissue is receeded. Likely it is due to stress. Hammer coral requires stable tank conditions, and is intolerant to major swings in water quality, and is sensitive to any level of copper in the water. Since they are a large polyp stony coral, calcium and alkalinity are two very important water parameters that will affect the growth of your coral. This coral will start to die off if the calcium levels are too low. A calcium level of about 400 ppm is just right.
This coral species isn’t terribly picky when it comes to the proper placement in your tank. The trick would really be just to avoid the extremes. Avoid extremely bright locations or areas of very high current, and avoid areas that are too dark or with currents that are too low. Fast currents risk damaging the soft, fleshy polyps (and getting an infection). Bright lights will cause bleaching. Insufficient lighting will cause the poor coral to wither away and starve to death.
Hammer corals only require a moderate amount of light for photosynthesis and can grow well in the intermediate regions of your tank. Just about any reef LED lighting should be sufficient for most tanks. Reduce white light intensity and get it off the sand bed which sand can irritate it.
The polyps should sway in the current, but not sustain so much pressure they are constantly bent over their skeleton. Too much flow will tear the polyps (worst case) and cause the polyps do not extend in the first place (best case). So, don’t give them too much flow.

 

[Rmckoy]

I find it very weird that a system this new requires daily dosing .
I guess it would depend on the amount of corals stocked . But seams odd .
lower nutrients such as nitrates are not generally that big of a deal when it comes to corals starving where some systems stocked full of corals can thrive on nitrates being undetectable as long as there are some phosphates

being a fairly new system I need some more information like trends over a period of time .
Stability is what I would question to Begin with .

 

[Lavey29]

I agree with the above. The coral was to high in the tank originally and it a definite hot spot right between your two lights. Better that you moves him lower but if your nitrates are not at 10 and phosphate .05 to ,1 then your LPS will struggle and others mentioned they will look ok right up to the point they just crash and go downhill. They are starving from the inside out.

 

[Lavey29]

I find it very weird that a system this new requires daily dosing .
I guess it would depend on the amount of corals stocked . But seams odd .
lower nutrients such as nitrates are not generally that big of a deal when it comes to corals starving where some systems stocked full of corals can thrive on nitrates being undetectable as long as there are some phosphates

being a fairly new system I need some more information like trends over a period of time .
Stability is what I would question to Begin with .

agree but maybe its because he is not doing weekly water changes like he should be on a new tank system?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm not sure how fast or slow that would show, but he did go from, full head but not as expanded, to basically missing half, in 24 hours. I know he gets some shrimp but I haven't target fed other than reef roids for all. I have increased shrimp feeding for 2-3 weeks to battle the low nitrates also, but can't guarantee how much he has gotten specifically.. :/

careful with Reef roids as they can quickly elevate your phosphate levels. Not a good food for hammer coral

 

[Rmckoy]

Agree . And possible .
I still don’t see the need to dose this soon .
how heavily it’s stocked would be the contributing factor

 

[Rmckoy]

Agree . And possible .
I still don’t see the need to dose this soon .
how heavily it’s stocked would be the contributing factor

 

[907_Reefer]

Thank you all!

For placement, I really need to find my go-to glue so I can utilize the middle of the tank more, that has been an issue. Not great luck with Coral Crete and was not a fan of how the E-Marco cement is to work with under water (potential big measurement swings, but it sure holds). Totally open to suggestions.

For dosing, we have been doing the 2 part every 3-4 days, for 6 weeks or so (don't have my log handy), and reef roids 4-5 days typically but sometimes 6-7 for about the same time. Anyway the idea was to bring pH and dKH up for better coral growth and ensure corals were properly fed. We were at 7.8 pH and 6.5 dKH early on, 2-part raised to 8.2-8.3 pH and just under 9 dKH consistently, minus the swing up to 10.4 dKH from E-Marco. Temp consistent, SG consistent, no lighting changes and no flow changes. Ammonia Nitrate Nitrite all consistent with nitrate at the 0 mark for the past 40 days, until I saw 2-3 when testing yesterday.

I am tempted to quit dosing both 2 part and roids, just ensure corals get some shrimp, continue overfeeding a bit (we have a good cleanup crew also), and see where we level back out at..

This is our second 55 gal, first ran great until we had to sell to move 10 years ago, but I'm definitely not an expert. Appreciate all the knowledge you all share!

 

[Rmckoy]

For placement, I really need to find my go-to glue so I can utilize the middle of the tank more, that has been an issue. Not great luck with Coral Crete and was not a fan of how the E-Marco cement is to work with under water (potential big measurement swings, but it sure holds). Totally open to suggestions.

For dosing, we have been doing the 2 part every 3-4 days, for 6 weeks or so (don't have my log handy), and reef roids 4-5 days typically but sometimes 6-7 for about the same time. Anyway the idea was to bring pH and dKH up for better coral growth and ensure corals were properly fed. We were at 7.8 pH and 6.5 dKH early on, 2-part raised to 8.2-8.3 pH and just under 9 dKH consistently, minus the swing up to 10.4 dKH from E-Marco. Temp consistent, SG consistent, no lighting changes and no flow changes. Ammonia Nitrate Nitrite all consistent with nitrate at the 0 mark for the past 40 days, until I saw 2-3 when testing yesterday.

I am tempted to quit dosing both 2 part and roids, just ensure corals get some shrimp, continue overfeeding a bit (we have a good cleanup crew also), and see where we level back out at..

This is our second 55 gal, first ran great until we had to sell to move 10 years ago, but I'm definitely not an expert. Appreciate all the knowledge you all share!

was the hammer coral in the tank when dkh dipped to 6.5 and not shot up to 10.4 ?

what’s the time period between the low to high ?
How much have you dozed daily to bring the values up ?
2nd corals don’t require feeding . They get most of their nutrients and energy from the lights

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

2nd corals don’t require feeding . They get most of their nutrients and energy from the lights

Corals don't get nutrients from the light, nitrate and phosphate are required for adequate photosynthesis to occur.

 

[Rmckoy]

Corals don't get nutrients from the light, nitrate is required for adequate photosynthesis to occur.

But ….
does not require physical feedings .
They process light through photosynthesis

 

[Rmckoy]

Corals don't get nutrients from the light, nitrate is required for adequate photosynthesis to occur.

After reading the last comment from the op
I don’t believe nitrate are the issue . I’m leaning more towards stability .
a spike in Alk alone from 6.5-10.4 is enough to kill even the toughest corals

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

After reading the last comment from the op
I don’t believe nitrate are the issue . I’m leaning more towards stability .
a spike in Alk alone from 6.5-10.4 is enough to kill even the toughest corals

Agreed.
And as to your reply on my other comment, I wanted to clarify for the OP that light alone, without sufficient nutrients, will not feed the coral. I knew what you meant about physical feedings

 

[Lavey29]

Thank you all!

For placement, I really need to find my go-to glue so I can utilize the middle of the tank more, that has been an issue. Not great luck with Coral Crete and was not a fan of how the E-Marco cement is to work with under water (potential big measurement swings, but it sure holds). Totally open to suggestions.

For dosing, we have been doing the 2 part every 3-4 days, for 6 weeks or so (don't have my log handy), and reef roids 4-5 days typically but sometimes 6-7 for about the same time. Anyway the idea was to bring pH and dKH up for better coral growth and ensure corals were properly fed. We were at 7.8 pH and 6.5 dKH early on, 2-part raised to 8.2-8.3 pH and just under 9 dKH consistently, minus the swing up to 10.4 dKH from E-Marco. Temp consistent, SG consistent, no lighting changes and no flow changes. Ammonia Nitrate Nitrite all consistent with nitrate at the 0 mark for the past 40 days, until I saw 2-3 when testing yesterday.

I am tempted to quit dosing both 2 part and roids, just ensure corals get some shrimp, continue overfeeding a bit (we have a good cleanup crew also), and see where we level back out at..

This is our second 55 gal, first ran great until we had to sell to move 10 years ago, but I'm definitely not an expert. Appreciate all the knowledge you all share!

Weekly water changes are the best option on mid sized tanks until your livestock bioload gets to the point where the water changes alone do not replenish your major and minor elements, This is the point where dosing steps in to fill the void between water changes and keep the stability in place. Roids spike phosphate and should only be used very sparingly.