Hammer Not Happy :(

[907_Reefer]

The hammer has been in the whold ride, went in tank on 5/7 when the dkh was at a steady 6.5. We stared dosing later on 5/16, dkh up to 7.5 on 5/21, up to 9.0 on 5/28 and spiked to 10.4 on 6/12 after the E-Marco on 6/11, started settling slowly after that, 10.0 on 6/19, 9.5 on 6/28, 8.8 on 7/7.

Dosing has been every 3-4 days, not daily, and I continued through the 10.4 spike since it is supposed designed to maintain 9.5, and didn't want a drop down to the initial 6.5. Dosing 1 cap full each (5ml) Reef Fusion 2 parts, for this 55 which has 34 gal water (measured at startup) after displaced with rock and sand.

The E-Marco is supposedly "reef safe", but I didn't like what I saw with the swing either after using on 1 frag, haven't used since.

 

[Rmckoy]

Corals don't get nutrients from the light, nitrate and phosphate are required for adequate photosynthesis to occur.

Can you please explain how thriving uln ( ultra low nutrient ) systems work and how some of the nicest acros I’ve ever seen are in tanks with next to zero nitrates ?

chances are nitrates are not zero but low is possible . Depending on the test kit used

we should ask what test kits were used to test for each parameter

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Can you please explain how thriving uln ( ultra low nutrient ) systems work and how some of the nicest acros I’ve ever seen are in tanks with next to zero nitrates ?

chances are nitrates are not zero but low is possible . Depending on the test kit used

we should ask what test kits were used to test for each parameter

Acros and other SPS have very different needs than soft coral and most LPS. They evolved in very different environments (uln) and trying to create a thriving tank with uln coral and corals that need more nutrients is difficult at best

 

[907_Reefer]

Agreed.
And as to your reply on my other comment, I wanted to clarify for the OP that light alone, without sufficient nutrients, will not feed the coral. I knew what you meant about physical feedings

Yes thank you! We have been over feeding to try and supplement nitrates with minimal luck (cleanup crew does some work). And just got our Hanna Phosphate ULR in this week to monitor PO4.

Weekly water changes are the best option on mid sized tanks until your livestock bioload gets to the point where the water changes alone do not replenish your major and minor elements, This is the point where dosing steps in to fill the void between water changes and keep the stability in place. Roids spike phosphate and should only be used very sparingly.

I was thinking about bumping up the schedule, will take more of a look at that. I figured since they are typically a good way to reduce nitrates, and we're at 0, let it ride a bit longer while other levels are decent. But if nitrates are already 0, guess water changes wouldn't have as much effect on that anyway lol. But I am up to 2-3 as of yesterday. Have RODI always ready however.

 

[907_Reefer]

Can you please explain how thriving uln ( ultra low nutrient ) systems work and how some of the nicest acros I’ve ever seen are in tanks with next to zero nitrates ?

chances are nitrates are not zero but low is possible . Depending on the test kit used

we should ask what test kits were used to test for each parameter

I did list the test kits used in the original post, I use a mix of Hanna and Red Sea. Nitrate is always Red Sea. Crystal clear vile until yesterday. Haven't bothered with the Hanna Nitrate checker due to reviews on some inconsistencies.

 

[Rmckoy]

Acros and other SPS have very different needs than soft coral and most LPS.

But to go along with what we are talking about. .
They all originate in one ocean

may I ask what the nitrate levels on a reef are ?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Yes thank you! We have been over feeding to try and supplement nitrates with minimal luck

Overfeeding your fish is a much better way to raise nitrates; meaning frozen foods, high quality flakes and pellets, things that specifically say they don't add a lot of phosphates. Extra food (and fish poop) will break down into nitrate. Phosphate, in this scenario, are only abundant in some foods, coral powders being one example.

 

[Rmckoy]

Acros and other SPS have very different needs than soft coral and most LPS. They evolved in very different environments (uln) and trying to create a thriving tank with uln coral and corals that need more nutrients is difficult at best

Below I’ll leave this old but handy chart .
nitrates recommended to be 0-10 ppm but typical surface levels for nitrates are 0.1ppm
Which would be undetectable on any of our hobby grade kits .

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

But to go along with what we are talking about. .
They all originate in one ocean

may I ask what the nitrate levels on a reef are ?

That is a tricky question. Which reef? During what time of day and which season? There is also research that shows even in areas practically barren of nutrients, nitrogen-fixing bacteria "create" ammonia for the zooxanthellea to consume; so even if water samples are taken in that vicinity of the ocean, the water within the reef itself has a very different nutrient/chemical makeup.

I'm sorry, I can't be more specific without spending a lot of time compiling and summarizing the scientific articles... I encourage you to look into it further though as it's quite fascinating

 

[Lavey29]

Below I’ll leave this old but handy chart .
nitrates recommended to be 0-10 ppm but typical surface levels for nitrates are 0.1ppm
Which would be undetectable on any of our hobby grade kits .

And we all know what happens to our closed loop systems running undetectable .1 nitrate levels.

 

[Rmckoy]

And we all know what happens to our closed loop systems running undetectable .1 nitrate levels.

Yes we do …
I’m ok work low nitrates .
when phosphates hit zero we have a huge problem .

 

[Rmckoy]

And we all know what happens to our closed loop systems running undetectable .1 nitrate levels.

When alkalinity fluctuates and swings we have huge issues as well .

 

[jaime31]

I’m going by what I’ve experienced here but I would say to check your MAG. without a good amount about 1400-1500 your cal and alk won’t be stable and will fluctuate.. from what I saw there’s too much white light. Corals benefit and feed off of blues uv’s and violets, the white light is more for the human eye so no need to have it so high. Nitrate and phos definitely need to not be at 0 because it’s one of their main food source. IMO Literally I would rather have them sky high than at 0. To fix the situation I would lower them in the rockwork, add some blue, flow should be a slight pulse every few seconds, and something that helped me a lot with my hammers is feeding them Brightwell aq coral amino which This repairs tissue also.. good luck

 

[907_Reefer]

I do need a MAG checker, it is next on my list here..

On lighting, I failed to add that the pictures are taken with an orange filter on my Samsung Galaxy. It is way more blue than it looks in these pics, I leave the room after a bit and everything looks orange to me outside. I don't think Mobius will confirm my standard intensity without actually hanging the lights to it (out of current moonlight mode, I dont want to fuss with the corals more) to confirm (or I havent figured out how), but I'm 99% sure I went with 100% AB+ setup at 39% schedule/intensity with no color range adjustments. But can confirm and have a filter-free pic tomorrow.

So far we're on the plan of continuing over feeding, definitely going to ditch the reef roids and up water changes, everyone suggest weekly WCs or so on a tank 2.5 months old with these params? I make 3 stage RODI here so no issues bumping that up. My RODI is 2 TDS IN, 0 TDS OUT.

Haven't seen any reason to quit the 2 part dosing yet if pH is holding at 8.2-8.3 and Alk at ~8.8, with 2x per week dosing?

Have also seen positive results from others for nitrates by killing the skimmer but it's our only source of aeration at this time. Otherwise we run 2 MP10 pumps and do have a small Jebao wavemaker for some surface agitation. And the Nitrates are a bit of a debate I guess

Hammer pic as of not long ago, below. I know he isn't a fan of the sand bed, but question now is he better up in the center of the tank tomorrow or should he stay here until I can get my hands on better glue/putty to work him on the rough angles (hard for gluing) in the middle region..

And we're up in AK, I have the 2 glue offerings from the LFS so shipping will take a bit for specific glues etc.

..Working on out little john boat this week I did see my Loctite waterproof sealant is "Aquarium Safe" however.......

Appreciate yall!

 

[jaime31]

Oh great we love to see the blues..
Definitely get a Mag test. That’s literally the first thing I check when testing to see if I’m gonna be stressed out or not haha. Mag is the support beams for alk and calcium stabilization. And the best part is that you can dump a whole bunch of it at once.. i have a 90g and I needed to dose about 400ml’s I put 200 in the morning and 200 and night.

about aeration. Bring the power heads closer to the surface or point them up. I would say to keep your skimmer running but remove the collection cup to allow the nutrients back into the water. Nowadays mechanical filtration technology is really good which is why most of us with new tanks end up with ultra low nutrient tanks. Skimmers and socks pull out all the good stuff.. a LFS also suggested a good idea. Put the skimmer on a timer and let it run for a few hrs only.

over feeding is good but can also lead to other problems. I would try dosing concentrated phos and nitrates. Brightwell aquatics sell some along with many other brands.. also corals love reef roids and I use them too. Just cut back on them and do a little target feeding with a turkey baster with the flow off and then set it back on in 10-15min to allow the dust to settle onto the polyps.

Hammers on the sand bed isn’t a bad thing unless you have a fish that’s gonna blow sand on it all the time like a goby. I honestly have mine on the sand bed too. I’ll show a pic. It’s the best place for me with par and flow. I have a few more light dominant corals up top so instead of adjusting the light I put them lower and turned off the power head on the left side of the tank. The outflow provides more than enough flow.

The hammer is looking better btw

 

[gbroadbridge]

Old tanks

Hey all, so we've had this Plum Hammer in the tank for 62 days now, he has been great but noticed him not as big for the past 3-4 days, and partially closed up all day today. Pics below. Not sure what is up :/

- New 55 gal tank started up 78 days ago
- 91 lbs live rock, 120 lbs live sand
- Cycled with Dr. Tims
- Lighting dual Radion XR 15 Blue
- Run on Mobius AB+ at 39% schedule
- Last WC 15% 27 days ago
- Red Sea Coral Pro Salt
- Dosing 2 part Alk/Ca twice per week
- Corals fed Reef Roids every 4-5 days
- Fish fed flakes and frozen shrimp

Params (RS for Red Sea kit, H for Hanna Checkers):

Temp: 77.5 F +/- 0.5 (Inkbird controlled)
SG: 1.025 (calibrated refractrometer w/35ppt)
NH3: 0-0.1 (RS)
NO2: 0 (RS)
NO3: 2-3 * (RS, has been 0 for about 40 days)
pH: 8.3 (RS & H)
dKH: 8.8 (H)
PO4: ~0.5 (H) **
Ca: 469 (H)

* We have been battling a low Nitrate problem (0) and haven't been able to keep Zoas but most other corals are fine (minus an acan echinata and candy cane). I just started noticing nitrates yesterday at 2-3 for the first time in 40 days of reading 0. Could the hammer be struggling due to low nitrates for over a month and not able to recover? His Bi-Color hammer neighbor is looking great but only been in the tank 14 days. We did lose a few zoa frags as well.

** Just got a Hanna Phosphate ULR checker, read 0.49 last night and 0.61 this afternoon. I have done lots of research on checker procedures and am fairly confident in my methods (but no one is perfect of course).. I'll run more tests but it didn't come with too many reagent pouches!!

Other tank notes:

Same day as the last WC (27 days) I had used E-Marco to glue one frag, got spooked by the white milky residue that leaks out when you work it in water, read about its potential to drive your skimmer crazy, spike Alk and pH, stopped at one frag, WC 15% and dKH spiked to 10.4 next day but has settled back around 8.5-9. No pH or Skimmer freak-outs. Just to note.

The last WC was the first use of Red Sea salt, initial startup and prior changes were Instant Ocean.

Fish are all great, clown pair, lawnmower blenny, pistol shrimp and goby, plus our latest additions a royal gramma and melanurus wrasse (those 2 been in for 14 days).

If I'm missing any other key points or anything let me know! And thanks!!

Hey all, so we've had this Plum Hammer in the tank for 62 days now, he has been great but noticed him not as big for the past 3-4 days, and partially closed up all day today. Pics below. Not sure what is up :/

- New 55 gal tank started up 78 days ago
- 91 lbs live rock, 120 lbs live sand
- Cycled with Dr. Tims
- Lighting dual Radion XR 15 Blue
- Run on Mobius AB+ at 39% schedule
- Last WC 15% 27 days ago
- Red Sea Coral Pro Salt
- Dosing 2 part Alk/Ca twice per week
- Corals fed Reef Roids every 4-5 days
- Fish fed flakes and frozen shrimp

Params (RS for Red Sea kit, H for Hanna Checkers):

Temp: 77.5 F +/- 0.5 (Inkbird controlled)
SG: 1.025 (calibrated refractrometer w/35ppt)
NH3: 0-0.1 (RS)
NO2: 0 (RS)
NO3: 2-3 * (RS, has been 0 for about 40 days)
pH: 8.3 (RS & H)
dKH: 8.8 (H)
PO4: ~0.5 (H) **
Ca: 469 (H)

* We have been battling a low Nitrate problem (0) and haven't been able to keep Zoas but most other corals are fine (minus an acan echinata and candy cane). I just started noticing nitrates yesterday at 2-3 for the first time in 40 days of reading 0. Could the hammer be struggling due to low nitrates for over a month and not able to recover? His Bi-Color hammer neighbor is looking great but only been in the tank 14 days. We did lose a few zoa frags as well.

** Just got a Hanna Phosphate ULR checker, read 0.49 last night and 0.61 this afternoon. I have done lots of research on checker procedures and am fairly confident in my methods (but no one is perfect of course).. I'll run more tests but it didn't come with too many reagent pouches!!

Other tank notes:

Same day as the last WC (27 days) I had used E-Marco to glue one frag, got spooked by the white milky residue that leaks out when you work it in water, read about its potential to drive your skimmer crazy, spike Alk and pH, stopped at one frag, WC 15% and dKH spiked to 10.4 next day but has settled back around 8.5-9. No pH or Skimmer freak-outs. Just to note.

The last WC was the first use of Red Sea salt, initial startup and prior changes were Instant Ocean.

Fish are all great, clown pair, lawnmower blenny, pistol shrimp and goby, plus our latest additions a royal gramma and melanurus wrasse (those 2 been in for 14 days).

If I'm missing any other key points or anything let me know! And thanks!!

Old tanks can survive a month without water changes.

New tanks will fail without water changes

 

[gbroadbridge]

But to go along with what we are talking about. .
They all originate in one ocean

may I ask what the nitrate levels on a reef are ?

Which ocean?

keep in mind that a home aquarium is not the ocean.

 

[907_Reefer]

Oh great we love to see the blues..
Definitely get a Mag test. That’s literally the first thing I check when testing to see if I’m gonna be stressed out or not haha. Mag is the support beams for alk and calcium stabilization. And the best part is that you can dump a whole bunch of it at once.. i have a 90g and I needed to dose about 400ml’s I put 200 in the morning and 200 and night.

about aeration. Bring the power heads closer to the surface or point them up. I would say to keep your skimmer running but remove the collection cup to allow the nutrients back into the water. Nowadays mechanical filtration technology is really good which is why most of us with new tanks end up with ultra low nutrient tanks. Skimmers and socks pull out all the good stuff.. a LFS also suggested a good idea. Put the skimmer on a timer and let it run for a few hrs only.

over feeding is good but can also lead to other problems. I would try dosing concentrated phos and nitrates. Brightwell aquatics sell some along with many other brands.. also corals love reef roids and I use them too. Just cut back on them and do a little target feeding with a turkey baster with the flow off and then set it back on in 10-15min to allow the dust to settle onto the polyps.

Hammers on the sand bed isn’t a bad thing unless you have a fish that’s gonna blow sand on it all the time like a goby. I honestly have mine on the sand bed too. I’ll show a pic. It’s the best place for me with par and flow. I have a few more light dominant corals up top so instead of adjusting the light I put them lower and turned off the power head on the left side of the tank. The outflow provides more than enough flow.

The hammer is looking better btw

Thanks for the details, and nice looking hammers! We're still getting this 2.5 month tank settled, appreciate all the tips here.

Will keep the thread posted on hammer status.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Haven't seen any reason to quit the 2 part dosing yet if pH is holding at 8.2-8.3 and Alk at ~8.8, with 2x per week dosing?

Have also seen positive results from others for nitrates by killing the skimmer but it's our only source of aeration at this time.

For the vast majority of new tanks, when you are doing water changes properly (10-15% weekly), you shouldn't need to dose. Be sure to closely monitor your Alk/ca/mag and ONLY dose if the consumption dictates. Test these three 12-24 hours after a water change and then test again right before the next one. This will give you an idea of what the tank consumes. Unless there's a huge decrease, stick with water changes only to replenish them.

Agree with others that leaving the skimmer on but pulling off the collection cup (or removing the plug and allowing the skimmate to run back into the water)

 

[907_Reefer]

Sounds good to me on the water changes etc! We were out all day yesterday, mixing up some SW today. Will be doing 5 gal changes which is 14.7% of my 34 gal capacity.

Update on hammer as of yesterday afternoon:

FTS w/no camera filter:

Light intensities middle of the day (run at 39% schedule):