Hawaii Fish Ban Update

[Kona Diver]

Other than to be combative or inflammatory, what was your point of posting in this thread then?

You say:

So they've done the studies showing it will be sustainable and they're providing you a report on their findings but you don't want to read the report?

This was not a debate thread on whether or not it should be done because of a "bred vs wild" topic. It was an update on the status of the situation.

This ban to begin with was done without scientific founding, it was pushed by organizations that just believe we should put creatures in glass boxes. These same organizations would ban all pets or management of any animal for that matter.

The ban did not take in to account the commercial fishing trade (consumption) when put in place, it only went after the aquarium trade which has a significantly reduced impact on these populations.

So again, what's the point of coming in and posting "I don't care to review the science...but if the science says..."?

You nailed it!

 

[JayM]

This ban to begin with was done without scientific founding, it was pushed by organizations that just believe we should put creatures in glass boxes. These same organizations would ban all pets or management of any animal for that matter.

It also seemed to be heavily supported by the underwater tourism industry.

 

[strich]

I'm glad the ban happened. It caused groups like biota to seize the opportunity to develop captive breeding programs for various species. This really needs to continue.
Scanning over the PDF it would seem some level of control should be returned to the fisheries. But I hope that it is restrictive enough to keep prices high and continue to push investments into captive breeding options.

 

[strich]

It also seemed to be heavily supported by the underwater tourism industry.

If that is truly the case, and I have no idea if it was, doesn't that point to there being at least the perception that the exports was decimating the local populations? What is the theory behind this rumor?

 

[KandAReefs]

I think it's funny that anyone thinks that limiting collection of fish for the aquarium trade makes any real difference when compared to pollution, habit destruction and commercial fishing. If you stop letting these animals from being in people's tanks to be enjoyed people will stop caring what happens to them entirely. This has been shown to happen when zoos and aquariums take animals off display donations to save them drops.

 

[areefer01]

thanks for the update @vetteguy53081
….but will yellow tanks still sell north of $200 ?

They are under that today at $165 US when buying direct. Ignoring that for a quick minute I think the bigger question is how much do we think they will sell for in todays economy and inflation?

@vetteguy53081 how many of these posts do we need? Kona Diver has been providing updates and new posts on it.

 

[Kona Diver]

If that is truly the case, and I have no idea if it was, doesn't that point to there being at least the perception that the exports was decimating the local populations? What is the theory behind this rumor?

no there is no evidence of a resource issue. This entire issue was predicated on a lie in the denial of the available science. To go against this fishery you have to be willing to deny reality and be comfortable hurting families/fishery people knowing this is all a lie. It’s the most studied fishery in the state of Hawaii and most studied aquarium fishery in the world

 

[areefer01]

Prices are never set in stone. We dictate the price outside of things we can’t control like fuel, electricity etc

Maybe they are thinking of MAPP. This is a real thing but maybe not in your industry.

 

[strich]

no there is no evidence of a resource issue. This entire issue was predicated on a lie in the denial of the available science. To go against this fishery you have to be willing to deny reality and be comfortable hurting families/fishery people knowing this is all a lie. It’s the most studied fishery in the state of Hawaii and most studied aquarium fishery in the world

Fair enough. I don't know enough about this issue to have an opinion on that. I'm willing to assume you're right.

I do however strongly believe captive breeding needs to be the majority of imports, and not the exception. I agree that science should lead the way in fisheries management, but I dislike that it was cheap enough that no one really felt it worth the investment to take on the challenge of palegic species breeding until recently.

For that reason the ban did have a silver lining and I'm grateful for that.

 

[Biokabe]

Maybe they are thinking of MAPP. This is a real thing but maybe not in your industry.

Even with MAP (one P, not two - Minimum Advertised Price), consumers still ultimately set the price for goods.

If MAP is set too high, then no one buys the product, sales fall, and companies are forced to lower the price to move their inventory. It's why it's important to vote with your wallet if you feel like things are overpriced - once a company has your money, they don't care if you think it was overpriced. You still bought it.

Complaints do nothing unless you also withhold purchasing.

 

[Kona Diver]

Fair enough. I don't know enough about this issue to have an opinion on that. I'm willing to assume you're right.

I do however strongly believe captive breeding needs to be the majority of imports, and not the exception. I agree that science should lead the way in fisheries management, but I dislike that it was cheap enough that no one really felt it worth the investment to take on the challenge of palegic species breeding until recently.

For that reason the ban did have a silver lining and I'm grateful for that.

I can appreciate that and would like to take a moment to say the fishery is not at odds with captive breeding. In fact that is my background. These companies will continue to do their thing and we will do ours. In fact, this issue has hurt anyone else from starting up in captive breeding as the permits for broodstock has been restricted based on the court ruling. This ruling has had a way bigger impact than it ever should have.

 

[Kona Diver]

If money is involved, which it obviously is...who funded that report? Besides, other's have commented on the difference in captive bred vs wild caught specimens before I seagulled....how is that relevant to the discussion either? You mad bro?

That report is from the State of Hawaii Division of Aquatic Resources. So if you’re suggesting it’s biased you’re wrong once again

 

[Sophie"s mom]

From a couple of sources . . . . . . .
The Hawaiian aquarium fishery has been shut down due to a court order requiring an environmental review. The court requirements have been satisfied and the State is moving forward in the permitting process. This is a two part meeting. The first is April 12, where DAR (Division of Aquatic Resources) will present the status of the fishery to the Land Board in a 92 page scientific analysis. Pending the outcome of the meeting Friday, a second meeting will occur in 6-8 weeks.

Nothing has gone according to plan in this process, so we should
not be surprised the opposition has requested the Board to ban the fishery at the April 12 meeting as well.

We need your assistance, now, and in a few months. We urge you to send a simple email to the Land Board.

CLICK HERE to send an email.

You can elaborate as much as you like, but be clear in your position in the first sentence.

Click here for a Link to the recent findings by DAR that will be presented on Friday that you can review.

I will not pretend to have much knowledge about the ban. But I will say I am more for captive bred fish in general. I do not like the idea of pulling fish from the ocean for our personal in home experience. Yes I am guilty of contributing to the problem. It just doesn't set well with me when I think about it. It is really a double edged sword.

 

[areefer01]

Even with MAP (one P, not two - Minimum Advertised Price), consumers still ultimately set the price for goods.

Not to nit pick but I've seen it both ways. MAPP - minimum advertised price "policy"

If MAP is set too high, then no one buys the product, sales fall, and companies are forced to lower the price to move their inventory. It's why it's important to vote with your wallet if you feel like things are overpriced - once a company has your money, they don't care if you think it was overpriced. You still bought it.

Complaints do nothing unless you also withhold purchasing.

I was just posting a comment to the members thoughts on pricing and maybe that is what they thought of. I do not know how it works for the coral or fish collection small businesses nor pretend to.

 

[Reefing102]

From a couple of sources . . . . . . .
The Hawaiian aquarium fishery has been shut down due to a court order requiring an environmental review. The court requirements have been satisfied and the State is moving forward in the permitting process. This is a two part meeting. The first is April 12, where DAR (Division of Aquatic Resources) will present the status of the fishery to the Land Board in a 92 page scientific analysis. Pending the outcome of the meeting Friday, a second meeting will occur in 6-8 weeks.

Nothing has gone according to plan in this process, so we should
not be surprised the opposition has requested the Board to ban the fishery at the April 12 meeting as well.

We need your assistance, now, and in a few months. We urge you to send a simple email to the Land Board.

CLICK HERE to send an email.

You can elaborate as much as you like, but be clear in your position in the first sentence.

Click here for a Link to the recent findings by DAR that will be presented on Friday that you can review.

The email link doesn’t work. It looks like it’s hawail and not Hawaii is the issue.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

No anger here, just truly not understanding the reasoning behind your initial post. It just comes across as "I'm against it and I don't want to read the science that says it's ok" which put into a public forum seems like you're just trying to be combative in which case I am the fool for engaging.

While I favor captive bred over wild myself (almost every fish in my 240 is from either ORA or Sustainable), I tend to follow logic, science, and reasoning over opinion on topics like this.

This report was funded by the state, so no industrial bias, if anything it would biased in the state's position of the ban - but the report finds in the opposite.

 

[strich]

I can appreciate that and would like to take a moment to say the fishery is not at odds with captive breeding. In fact that is my background. These companies will continue to do their thing and we will do ours. In fact, this issue has hurt anyone else from starting up in captive breeding as the permits for broodstock has been restricted based on the court ruling. This ruling has had a way bigger impact than it ever should have.

I can't help but agree with what you're saying of course. The ban clearly needs to be lifted and replaced with limited export permits - much lower than simply maintaining wild populations too.
I just hope it won't cause a return to ultra low cost fish that push out captive again.

As an Australian living next to the great better reef I have low trust in the various competing gov and private bodies vying to exploit a limited natural resource.
I just hope Hawaii can do better than what's been done to our reef.

 

[JayM]

If that is truly the case, and I have no idea if it was, doesn't that point to there being at least the perception that the exports was decimating the local populations? What is the theory behind this rumor?

It is the case.
Starting in the Appendix, pg.7:

"The rapid growth of the aquarium fishery in the mid to late 1980’s spurred conflict with other ocean users mainly snorkel and dive tour operators) off the Kona coast."

To me, that reads "we don't wanna see fishing vessels/operations where we're diving". But you may be correct that the perception was that there was a decline in fish population. But perception isn't the same as reality.

If money is involved, which it obviously is...who funded that report? Besides, other's have commented on the difference in captive bred vs wild caught specimens before I seagulled....how is that relevant to the discussion either? You mad bro?

"Submitted for your information and consideration is a review of existing fisheries data and management considerations related to the West Hawai‘i Commercial Aquarium Fishery prepared by the Department of Land and Natural Resources’ (Department) Division of Aquatic Resources (DAR)."

It appears to have been funded by the same branch of Government that issues collection permits, using information gathered from the West Hawaii Aquarium Project and the Pacific Islands Fishery Science Center. I don't know where the latter two organizations get their funding.

All in all, the report appears to be as unbiased as it can be.


Bottom line is that more than likely, wild caught fish from Hawaii will most likely be available in the near future, and likely at more affordable prices than they currently are, and without negatively impacting wild populations.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Pg. 8:

Looks like they were intentionally trying to be as non-bias as possible in the scope of their report and simply relay the findings.

 

[SimbaAnto]

On the price, what goes up need to come down to reality. I agree it will come to $50-$70 $ ranges. But on the wild caught, if the permits arent exploited and there are gatekeeping, its ok we have them in our tanks. Also given that BIOTA are doing them, it should offset the demand. I really want both the Reefing community and the Yellow tang to be happy and the species is saved.

Afterall Yellow Tangs are the brand ambassodor of this community. Atleast to me which brought me to this hobby.