HELP...fish keep dying in QT! Need advice

[nbd13]

Hey everyone,

So I woke up this morning to yet another dead fish in QT.

Over the last 2 months I’ve gotten 10 fish in and so far 3 have made it into the display and 2 are still in QT 5 have died.

I’m following HotRocks protocol to the T. Have 3 10 gallon setups all with their own equipment. Use aqua clear 50 HOB filters for each with the included sponge and filter floss in a mesh bag. I’ve used Fritz turbostart and biospira to cycle the tanks.

14 days of copper at 1.75 with metro every other day for 10 days. Food soaked in GC and focus. Then to another new tank and 2 doses of GC 5-7 days apart.

The fish always seem to make it through copper and then dye during the GC treatments.

I’ve lost 4 borbonius anthias and 1 juvi Red Sea regal angel from divers den this morning.

They all were eating and then stop randomly and 1-2 days later they are dead.

I’m getting pretty upset. I know the importance of QT as I’ve lost a full tank before and thousands of dollars.

I’m getting more expensive fish in, in the coming weeks and do not want to loose them!

I need some advice here. I use Hanna copper meter, literally follow the protocol.

The fish show no external signs...no idea why they are dying.

I am having a problem with bacterial blooms, but I’m not sure if this is causing the fish to die?

Feeling defeated here....

 

[HotRocks]

I know we have had conversations via PM. One thing I don't know that we have discussed is ammonia. Are you running badges on all tanks?

The other thing is depending on the severity of the bacterial blooms it could be causing enough damage from Lack of oxygen that even though the fish are moved to a new tank they succumb to the internal damage from lack of oxygen.

 

[ngoodermuth]

General cure + bacterial blooms immediately says to me it’s oxygen deprivation. Praziquantel is notorious for compromising available O2, combined with the oxygen depletion caused by bacterial blooms and there is nothing left for the fish.

What are you doing for aeration in your QT’s?

 

[nbd13]

I know we have had conversations via PM. One thing I don't know that we have discussed is ammonia. Are you running badges on all tanks?

The other thing is depending on the severity if the bacterial blooms it's could be causing enough damage from Lack of oxygen that even though the fish are moved to a new tank they succumb to the internal damage from lack of oxygen.

Yes forgot to say ammonia badges on all tanks. Each has there own. All yellow.

I can add an air stone for each tank. Should that do it? I make sure there is a water fall effect from the HoB filter to help with air exchange too.

What air stone is everyone using?

Thanks

 

[nbd13]

General cure + bacterial blooms immediately says to me it’s oxygen deprivation. Praziquantel is notorious for compromising available O2, combined with the oxygen depletion caused by bacterial blooms and there is nothing left for the fish.

What are you doing for aeration in your QT’s?

Forgot to say I have a powerless and HOB filter for each tank. I can add an air stone. What one are you using? Should that be enough for oxygen exchange?

Thanks

 

[ngoodermuth]

Forgot to say I have a powerless and HOB filter for each tank. I can add an air stone. What one are you using? Should that be enough for oxygen exchange?

Thanks

Yep, I’d definitely add an air-stone. I use a powerhead, airstone, and filter in my tank when using meds. If mixing meds or if I’m worried about lowered oxygen I’ll position the airstone right under my powerhead so it shoots bubbles all over the tank. Looks a bit like over-kill, but it works!

Also, when you see those bacterial blooms it is a good idea to do a pretty sizable water change. If you’ve already dosed the General cure, as long as it’s been at least 24 hours you can go ahead and do the change.

 

[4FordFamily]

I agree with the air stone, my quarantine tanks have at least one air stone and at least one powerhead aimed up.

The bacterial blooms are a plaguing issue in general, I suspect light stocked QT, low feeding, and less light will help but that's conjecture. These blooms that progress quickly can kill fish very quickly, very frustrating. Giant water changes are about all you can do during the treatment...

Another thing to consider is that Anthias are difficult, regal are difficult, and even experts have trouble quarantining them. We have the same issue, we love to keep difficult to keep fish that are sensitive -- it just makes this more difficult and losses are more expected, unfortunately. Good luck

 

[nbd13]

Yep, I’d definitely add an air-stone. I use a powerhead, airstone, and filter in my tank when using meds. If mixing meds or if I’m worried about lowered oxygen I’ll position the airstone right under my powerhead so it shoots bubbles all over the tank. Looks a bit like over-kill, but it works!

Also, when you see those bacterial blooms it is a good idea to do a pretty sizable water change. If you’ve already dosed the General cure, as long as it’s been at least 24 hours you can go ahead and do the change.

Thanks. I usually do 50% water change when I see the bloom but doesn’t really seem to do much.

I’ll get an air stone for each tank.

 

[nbd13]

I agree with the air stone, my quarantine tanks have at least one air stone and at least one powerhead aimed up.

The bacterial blooms are a plaguing issue in general, I suspect light stocked QT, low feeding, and less light will help but that's conjecture. These blooms that progress quickly can kill fish very quickly, very frustrating. Giant water changes are about all you can do during the treatment...

Another thing to consider is that Anthias are difficult, regal are difficult, and even experts have trouble quarantining them. We have the same issue, we love to keep difficult to keep fish that are sensitive -- it just makes this more difficult and losses are more expected, unfortunately. Good luck

Thanks. Yeah I started my QT adventure with borbonius anthias and regals 2 difficult species for sure.

I have a joculator angel, juvi bandit angel (3”), flame wrasse, lineatus wrasse and pintail wrasse coming in 3 1/2 weeks. So I’m getting nervous about those fish. Lots of money there and don’t want to kill them.

I’m going to switch to 20L tanks. Add an air stone and hope I guess. Not sure what else I can do. Just frustrating.

 

[dwest]

Thanks. Yeah I started my QT adventure with borbonius anthias and regals 2 difficult species for sure.

I have a joculator angel, juvi bandit angel (3”), flame wrasse, lineatus wrasse and pintail wrasse coming in 3 1/2 weeks. So I’m getting nervous about those fish. Lots of money there and don’t want to kill them.

I’m going to switch to 20L tanks. Add an air stone and hope I guess. Not sure what else I can do. Just frustrating.

Agree you are doing tough fish. I have quarantined 6 wrasses with the procedure recently. All successful.

 

[SDK]

Grab some inexpensive sponge filters while you're at it. I run them in my QT tanks. They make a convenient "holder" for the stone that adds both another hiding place and a ton of insurance with regards to extra biological filtration. If you're running the airstone anyway, the one time $7 per filter expense is well worth it. Especially if you are QTing sensitive or expensive fish.

I usually grab mine six at a time from Jehmco to get the discount. http://jehmco.com/html/hydro-sponge_filters.html

I now keep a permanently set up QT /hospital tank, but I used to keep a sponge filter running in my DT sump when I didn't. If I needed to set a tank up quickly, I could pull the mature sponge out of the sump for an instantly cycled QT "on demand".

This is an issue that too many ignore I think. Even with additives, the use of newly set up tanks to quarantine just adds to the difficulty of the process. Now that you have several QT tanks running, I would encourage you to keep one of them set up permanently somewhere...

 

[4FordFamily]

Thanks. Yeah I started my QT adventure with borbonius anthias and regals 2 difficult species for sure.

I have a joculator angel, juvi bandit angel (3”), flame wrasse, lineatus wrasse and pintail wrasse coming in 3 1/2 weeks. So I’m getting nervous about those fish. Lots of money there and don’t want to kill them.

I’m going to switch to 20L tanks. Add an air stone and hope I guess. Not sure what else I can do. Just frustrating.

Wrasse are tough, they often hurt themself and get spinal injuries. No sudden movements, they startle easily when the lights turn on so a gradual increase of light is recommended. They also don't like meds much. Unfortunately your next batch is pretty tough, too, but for the bandit angel. It can be done, however!

 

[nbd13]

Wrasse are tough, they often hurt themself and get spinal injuries. No sudden movements, they startle easily when the lights turn on so a gradual increase of light is recommended. They also don't like meds much. Unfortunately your next batch is pretty tough, too, but for the bandit angel. It can be done, however!

Thanks. I have a soft mesh net over the tank and egg crate over that. I’ll have to keep my 3 1/2 year old at bay haha. Every morning he runs to check on the fish.

 

[ngoodermuth]

As a fellow wrasse aficionado, my advice with QT’ing wrasses is to go slowly. Don’t expect a 3-week QT. Wrasses are generally a bit more parasite-resistant than other fish, so I’ve chosen not to medicate from day one. Rather, I’ll take a few days to a week to get them comfortable in the QT and eating before starting prophylactic treatments.

When raising copper, do it slowly.... 4-5 days ramp up is preferable unless symptoms pop-up sooner. Feed smaller amounts more frequently rather than one large daily feeding.

And don’t skip the deworming/fluke treatments with wrasses as they are VERY prone to these two things.

This is just my personal preference... but I’ve been very successful with wrasses this way. Regal angels are tough, I lost two before I got a good, sturdy one.

Angels can be tough to get eating in general in QT.... so make sure you have a fully stocked arsenal of the “good stuff” (clams, mussels, variety of frozen foods, flakes, roe, live blackworms, etc)

Remember, feed sparingly though and remove uneaten foods promptly to avoid water quality issues.

 

[Manthanol]

Grab some inexpensive sponge filters while you're at it. I run them in my QT tanks. They make a convenient "holder" for the stone that adds both another hiding place and a ton of insurance with regards to extra biological filtration. If you're running the airstone anyway, the one time $7 per filter expense is well worth it. Especially if you are QTing sensitive or expensive fish.

I usually grab mine six at a time from Jehmco to get the discount. http://jehmco.com/html/hydro-sponge_filters.html

I now keep a permanently set up QT /hospital tank, but I used to keep a sponge filter running in my DT sump when I didn't. If I needed to set a tank up quickly, I could pull the mature sponge out of the sump for an instantly cycled QT "on demand".

This is an issue that too many ignore I think. Even with additives, the use of newly set up tanks to quarantine just adds to the difficulty of the process. Now that you have several QT tanks running, I would encourage you to keep one of them set up permanently somewhere...

+1 on the sponge filters. All my QTs have it now and ammonia spikes are no longer an issue, it's a great home for your bacteria with added water movement in conjunction with HOB. Very inexpensive on Amazon or Ebay.

 

[AcroNem]

I definitely think this was likely O2 depletion, I run several 20L and 33L as my quarantine systems and have 2 large air stones each. Prazi can cause serious problems if there is not a heavy amount of aeration. Sounds like everyone else already chimed in on that, but after adding an air stone you should be a lot better off, you've got some tricky species you're working with but you can do it.

 

[nbd13]

As a fellow wrasse aficionado, my advice with QT’ing wrasses is to go slowly. Don’t expect a 3-week QT. Wrasses are generally a bit more parasite-resistant than other fish, so I’ve chosen not to medicate from day one. Rather, I’ll take a few days to a week to get them comfortable in the QT and eating before starting prophylactic treatments.

When raising copper, do it slowly.... 4-5 days ramp up is preferable unless symptoms pop-up sooner. Feed smaller amounts more frequently rather than one large daily feeding.

And don’t skip the deworming/fluke treatments with wrasses as they are VERY prone to these two things.

This is just my personal preference... but I’ve been very successful with wrasses this way. Regal angels are tough, I lost two before I got a good, sturdy one.

Angels can be tough to get eating in general in QT.... so make sure you have a fully stocked arsenal of the “good stuff” (clams, mussels, variety of frozen foods, flakes, roe, live blackworms, etc)

Remember, feed sparingly though and remove uneaten foods promptly to avoid water quality issues.

Thanks!

I’m fully stocked on all sorts of foods. Even can get fresh clams and mussels.

For the wrasses, do you drop them into water with copper at 1.5? Or 1.0?

The dewormer your talking about food soaked in GC and focus right? Does that also treat flukes?

What do you cover the top of the tank with? I have multiple PVC pieces in there for them.

I usually do copper and metro together. Do you do this or not? So metro every other day for 10 days total or 5 doses of metro.

Thanks!

 

[nbd13]

Grab some inexpensive sponge filters while you're at it. I run them in my QT tanks. They make a convenient "holder" for the stone that adds both another hiding place and a ton of insurance with regards to extra biological filtration. If you're running the airstone anyway, the one time $7 per filter expense is well worth it. Especially if you are QTing sensitive or expensive fish.

I usually grab mine six at a time from Jehmco to get the discount. http://jehmco.com/html/hydro-sponge_filters.html

I now keep a permanently set up QT /hospital tank, but I used to keep a sponge filter running in my DT sump when I didn't. If I needed to set a tank up quickly, I could pull the mature sponge out of the sump for an instantly cycled QT "on demand".

This is an issue that too many ignore I think. Even with additives, the use of newly set up tanks to quarantine just adds to the difficulty of the process. Now that you have several QT tanks running, I would encourage you to keep one of them set up permanently somewhere...

What sponge do you use specifically? There are a ton on that site.

Thanks

 

[nbd13]

+1 on the sponge filters. All my QTs have it now and ammonia spikes are no longer an issue, it's a great home for your bacteria with added water movement in conjunction with HOB. Very inexpensive on Amazon or Ebay.

What specific one do you use?

 

[nbd13]

What airstone does everyone use? Any recommendations?

Thanks