Help me achieve SPS success

[AcroFan144]

Despite my best efforts and research, I can not keep SPS in my tank. I have kept softies and LPS in the past, but my goal is to have an SPS dominant system, with a focus on Acropora. I know these kinds of systems are not easy to maintain, but I am willing to learn and improve my skills.

However, I have hit a brick wall. Despite all parameters checking out, without swings, I can't keep SPS alive for more than a month.

For a month SPS frags look good and have good PE. Usually, the color also changes for the better. For example, I have received a free frag of Bird of Paradise Seriatopora, which was completely brown. In one month it has changed colors, with the skin being green and polyps turning purple. However, like all other frags, it died in the 4-5th week of being in the tank. Tissue starts peeling off, and within days it is white.

Interestingly, all frags behave the same: 3-4 weeks they do nothing (no growth), some lay down some base, and then tissue necrosis hits.

System info:

60-gallon display + 15-gallon sump, 6x an hour sump turnover
1 pound per gallon of live rock (recently bought, 30 days ago, replaced BRS dry saver I have had for a year)
8 fish, fed 2x daily (once with flakes, once with frozen mysis)
2x volume rated skimmer
Filter floss changed 1-2x a week
Reactor running some carbon, changed monthly
Heater on a controller
ATI Sunpower 6x39w (3 Blue+,3 Coral+) - 2 bulbs on for 12 hours, all 6 bulbs on for 8 hours
1 Jebao sow-8 + 1 Jebao sow-15 for flow - there is high flow in most of the tank
10% water change every 2 weeks, using AF reef salt
2 part dosing - despite no corals, I am seeing a drop in ALK - I guess due to coralline growth

Parameters

Salinity: 35ppt / 1.0264 sg (H2Ocean refractometer, calibrated every time I use it with 35ppt solution)
Temp: 25.5 C

Ca: ~450 (Salifert)
KH: ~8 (Salifert)
Mg: ~1400 (Salifert)

NO3 : 10-20 (Salifert)
PO4: 0.05-0.1 (Hanna ULR phosphorus)

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I am getting frustrated. I am OCD about doing my testing, water changes, cleaning...but with no success. My dream is to have a fully stocked SPS reef, but for the last year, I have not had success.
It is hard to justify spending money on filters, salt, electricity, and failing every time I try SPS. It tests my love for this hobby every time it happens.

Any help would be appreciated, as I am really running out of ideas. Thank you!

 

[Gernader]

Your parameters look great to me. I'm guessing there is some contaminant involved. Have you tried an ICP test? Are you getting 0 TDS from your RODI unit?

 

[Boonz28]

If I’m reading your post correctly you replaced all your rock a month ago?
If so, even with live rock I would expect there to be a rebalancing period after such a destabilizing event in your tank. Bacteria might be dying off and reestablishing new populations due to the change in water chemistry going from one tank to another. This would all be undetectable in the parameters we test for but make for an unstable water chemistry all the same. Possibly with some ammonia detectable in the system if anything.
That would be my first guess unless I’ve misread your initial post.

 

[AcroFan144]

Your parameters look great to me. I'm guessing there is some contaminant involved. Have you tried an ICP test? Are you getting 0 TDS from your RODI unit?

I have not done an ICP test, maybe that would be smart.

My TDS is around 1-5, I am having very hard time getting 0. My tap water TDS is 600, so I run through tons of DI resin.

 

[AcroFan144]

If I’m reading your post correctly you replaced all your rock a month ago?
If so, even with live rock I would expect there to be a rebalancing period after such a destabilizing event in your tank. Bacteria might be dying off and reestablishing new populations due to the change in water chemistry going from one tank to another. This would all be undetectable in the parameters we test for but make for an unstable water chemistry all the same. Possibly with some ammonia detectable in the system if anything.
That would be my first guess unless I’ve misread your initial post.

Yes, you are correct. I was given few frags as a gift from friend to try SPS with new live rock. Previous to that I was using dry reef saver. I thought my lack of success with SPS may be due to rock, so I replaced it.

 

[JGT]

If I’m reading your post correctly you replaced all your rock a month ago?
If so, even with live rock I would expect there to be a rebalancing period after such a destabilizing event in your tank. Bacteria might be dying off and reestablishing new populations due to the change in water chemistry going from one tank to another. This would all be undetectable in the parameters we test for but make for an unstable water chemistry all the same. Possibly with some ammonia detectable in the system if anything.
That would be my first guess unless I’ve misread your initial post.

Was the live rock you got submersed in water before putting into your tank or did it come wrapped in wet newspapers? If the latter you could be having ammonia issues. Your nitrates are good but that could be leftover. Did you test for ammonia? Since you basically removed a good chunk of your bio filter with the dry rock and added new live rock, you might be killing the sps with ammonia.

 

[AcroFan144]

Was the live rock you got submersed in water before putting into your tank or did it come wrapped in wet newspapers? If the latter you could be having ammonia issues. Your nitrates are good but that could be leftover. Did you test for ammonia? Since you basically removed a good chunk of your bio filter with the dry rock and added new live rock, you might be killing the sps with ammonia.

Live rock was sitting in my friend system for years, and that system supports beautifull Acropora corals. Rock was wrapped in wet towels for 30min ride to my home. To be honest, I did not test for ammonia.

 

[schuby]

What unit-of-measure is your PO4 measurement? ppb or ppm? If you convert ppb to ppm, what formula? (Maybe a lookup table?)

For your stated measurements, are they as of now or are they those values over several months (tested at least once a week)?

Exactly what and how much do you feed each day? What are your eight fish?

 

[JGT]

Should be OK then but wouldn’t hurt to test for ammonia. If comes back negative then I agree on the ICP test. With TDS that high, maybe something is getting through or your TDS meter is off.

 

[ScubaFish802]

Your parameters look great to me. I'm guessing there is some contaminant involved. Have you tried an ICP test? Are you getting 0 TDS from your RODI unit?

Did OP state they were using RODI? I went back and looked but couldn't find it. That is definietly a good question, where are you getting your water from, TDS etc..?

 

[schuby]

Here's some more questions to help us help you.

What changes have you made to your tank over the last year, preferably in order with the month of each change? Filters, salt, corals (LPS or SPS), lights, reactors, refugium, rock, dosing, fish, feeding, ...

How many times have you tried SPS frags? Do you make changes each time they don't survive?

From your description (SPS frags get good color and PE, then perish after a month), it sounds to me like they starve to death due to lack of nutrients. It may be that there is nothing grossly wrong with your tank except a decent flow of nutrients (fish-food -> fish-poop -> coral-food).

You didn't list much of anything in your setup that removes nutrients from you water, except the carbon-reactor. With your phosphate and nitrate at low levels, I'd guess you feed your fish very lightly. When you answer my questions, we'll have more to go on.

A pic of your tank and sump would be nice.

 

[AcroFan144]

What unit-of-measure is your PO4 measurement? ppb or ppm? If you convert ppb to ppm, what formula? (Maybe a lookup table?)

For your stated measurements, are they as of now or are they those values over several months (tested at least once a week)?

Exactly what and how much do you feed each day? What are your eight fish?

PO4 measurements are in ppm (I just double-checked with Hanna ULR phosphorus tables).

My nitrates increased from 2.5ppm to 10-20ppm in 2 weeks, and my ALK was 5.4 due to falty test kit. I raised it to 8 slowly, over 2 weeks.

In the morning I feed 1 teaspoon of Optimum nutrition flakes (mix of 3 types), and in the evening I feed 1 cube of frozen mysis. It takes fish good 3-5 minutes to eat all the food, and there is usually a bit leftover on the sand bed. The fish are all fat and happy, with great coloration. I have 2 small ocelaris clownfish, 3 blue chromis, 1 flasher wrasse, 1 small bristletooth tang, and 1 small blue spotted rabbitfish. I am aware that tang and rabbitfish will outgrow the tank, but I am ready to rehouse them.

 

[AcroFan144]

Here's some more questions to help us help you.

What changes have you made to your tank over the last year, preferably in order with the month of each change? Filters, salt, corals (LPS or SPS), lights, reactors, refugium, rock, dosing, fish, feeding, ...

How many times have you tried SPS frags? Do you make changes each time they don't survive?

From your description (SPS frags get good color and PE, then perish after a month), it sounds to me like they starve to death due to lack of nutrients. It may be that there is nothing grossly wrong with your tank except a decent flow of nutrients (fish-food -> fish-poop -> coral-food).

You didn't list much of anything in your setup that removes nutrients from you water, except the carbon-reactor. With your phosphate and nitrate at low levels, I'd guess you feed your fish very lightly. When you answer my questions, we'll have more to go on.

A pic of your tank and sump would be nice.

Honestly, there were a lot of changes made, however, not during the downfall of SPS frags. I usually tried to change things after they died. I started out with a refugium, but have removed it. My feeding has increased recently in order to try to increase nutrients (I had 0 PO4).

I should add that I tried both Triton and AF probiotic method. Being new to SPS game, their marketing has got to me. However, I have since talked to BigE and decided to ditch all the bottles and fancy dosing schemes. Now I am running just the basics.

I have tried SPS frags in 2 'batches' so far. All 3 have ended the same. All good for a month, and then tissue necrosis in a few days to one week.

The corraline algae is starting to cover my new rocks, so hopefully some stability is being achieved.

 

[AcroFan144]

Did OP state they were using RODI? I went back and looked but couldn't find it. That is definietly a good question, where are you getting your water from, TDS etc..?

Yes, sorry I didn't mention it. I am using RODI system with particulate filter - carbon - RO - 2x DI resin. I am keeping my TDS between 1-5, and change it when TDS hits 5. I know that 0 is the norm, however, I am having a very hard time keeping low TDS, despite my RO having 97.5% rejection rate (checked my tap water TDS and post RO membrane TDS).

 

[Big E]

If you do ICP I would go with ATI as you can get a free analysis of your RO water to see if any of those solids getting through are an issue.

Since we talked it's only been a few weeks.......so I assume you haven't bought any new frags yet?

Per our talks the only thing I would do is run a shorter photo period as mentioned.

 

[Dr. Jim]

1-What is your pH? Whether or not you measure it, my biggest piece of advice to anyone is to run an air tube (or pvc) pipe from an outside window to your skimmer. (This will lower CO2 which will raise your pH by 0.1-0.2 units which will be a HUGE help!)

2-Stop using carbon continuously. (I rarely ever use it)

3-ICP test: I had the same problem with SPS in my 60 gal tank until I did a ICP test and found high tin (came from plastic tubing, sched 80 pvc, and even acrylic/plastic protein skimmers. Tin and other contaminants builds up quickly in a small tank). Also, use ICP results to compare to your test kits (so test water with all your kits the same day you send out the water for comparison).

4-Get 2 or 3 different bottles of refractometer standards to check your refractometer. And, consider more than one brand test kit for nitrates. (I use Salifert and Red Sea)

5-Your nitrates are a little higher than I would like for a relatively "new" tank.

6-I would feed corals with at least amino acids (Zeovit and/or Acropowr). I also use many of the zeovit products but just to start with a few others, I'd suggest Pohls Xtra and Sponge Power. (I would use 1/4 of the recommended dosages to start, until corals get a little larger).

7-With a small tank, it would be relatively easy and economical to do a 10% water change once a week, or 20% every other week which I believe would be helpful

SPS Keeper for 25 yrs.

 

[schuby]

If @Big E is willing to be your mentor, then you should consider yourself well on your way to a successful SPS tank. You should only take his advice and no one else's. Too many chefs in the kitchen and no one likes the food...

It would be nice if you posted your progress in this thread. I'm interested and will keep watching. Good luck!

 

[Dr. Jim]

You should only take his advice and no one else's.

Really???

 

[schuby]

Yes. Please read my entire post for context and reasoning.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Yes. Please read my entire post for context and reasoning.

I did read all your posts and believe you asked very good and helpful questions.
But to post what you said ("You should only take his advice and no one else's") right after my post, which I believe contains very valid and helpful information, makes it sound like you are saying "don't listen to that guy!:

Maybe you should give us a list of all the R2R members that others should listen to so the rest of us will know never to post again to try to help someone???