Help me achieve SPS success

[schuby]

@Dr. Jim , I'm sorry you got that impression. It was not my intent. Only that the OP should follow one person's advice and there's already a relationship started with Big E over the last several weeks. The majority of threads on this site have conflicting advice from multiple members that, if all followed, would surely crash most any tank.

I believe your advice as a mentor would be highly valued, too. It is by me.

 

[lovemysps00]

Kudos to Big E. He helped me a lot too and my SPS are now striving.

 

[lovemysps00]

Kudos to Big E. He helped me a lot too and my SPS are now striving.

 

[Bpb]

If @Big E is willing to be your mentor, then you should consider yourself well on your way to a successful SPS tank. You should only take his advice and no one else's. Too many chefs in the kitchen and no one likes the food...

It would be nice if you posted your progress in this thread. I'm interested and will keep watching. Good luck!

Agreed. I had some points to give but if he’s being specifically counseled by a respected sps keeper in the forum, I cannot imagine I’d offer anything new

 

[AcroFan144]

If you do ICP I would go with ATI as you can get a free analysis of your RO water to see if any of those solids getting through are an issue.

Since we talked it's only been a few weeks.......so I assume you haven't bought any new frags yet?

Per our talks the only thing I would do is run a shorter photo period as mentioned.

Thank you, I will try to get ATI ICP test.
No, I haven't bought any new frags yet, and probably will not in the next few weeks. I have found that my parameters are not as stable as I thought they would be. My nitrates have decreased from 10-20ppm to 5ppm in past 2 weeks, despite my feedings being exactly the same. My PO4 is stable at around 0.04-0.05ppm. I am planning to add a few more fish in the next few weeks, and after that I will try a few 'easy' SPS frags. Also, my tank is finally 100% clear of cyanobacteria, and the fish are keeping tiny bits of green algae at bay. Corraline growth is definitely picking up.

1-What is your pH? Whether or not you measure it, my biggest piece of advice to anyone is to run an air tube (or pvc) pipe from an outside window to your skimmer. (This will lower CO2 which will raise your pH by 0.1-0.2 units which will be a HUGE help!)

2-Stop using carbon continuously. (I rarely ever use it)

3-ICP test: I had the same problem with SPS in my 60 gal tank until I did a ICP test and found high tin (came from plastic tubing, sched 80 pvc, and even acrylic/plastic protein skimmers. Tin and other contaminants builds up quickly in a small tank). Also, use ICP results to compare to your test kits (so test water with all your kits the same day you send out the water for comparison).

4-Get 2 or 3 different bottles of refractometer standards to check your refractometer. And, consider more than one brand test kit for nitrates. (I use Salifert and Red Sea)

5-Your nitrates are a little higher than I would like for a relatively "new" tank.

6-I would feed corals with at least amino acids (Zeovit and/or Acropowr). I also use many of the zeovit products but just to start with a few others, I'd suggest Pohls Xtra and Sponge Power. (I would use 1/4 of the recommended dosages to start, until corals get a little larger).

7-With a small tank, it would be relatively easy and economical to do a 10% water change once a week or 20% every other week which I believe would be helpful

SPS Keeper for 25 yrs.

1. I have never measured my pH since I was told not to chase it.
2. Will do, I will start using it only for a few days to polish the water, and then remove it.
3. ICP test kit will definitely be done.
4. I have 2 different bottles for calibration, and both are showing the same numbers. I also have 2 test kits for nitrates, same as you, Red sea and Salifert. Both are showing similar numbers.
5. What would be your recommended values for NO3 in my tank?
6. I have tried dosing aminoacids as a part of AF probiotic system in the past. However, I am trying to keep my tank as simple as possible right now - tons of fish and feeding while having relatively low NO3 and PO4.
7. I will increase the waterchanges as suggested.

Guys, I want to hear all the suggestions you have. I am trying to follow BigE's method as well as I can, since I like his results and love the simplicity. That being said, I definitely want to hear all your opinions on the topic of SPS keeping.
In the past I was guilty of trying to combine various approaches, which led me to failure. This time I want to 'copy' a successful SPS keeping method and see where it takes me.

I will make this thread my journal of SPS keeping, and will update you guys with both the good and bad news. Will also post pictures in the future.

Thank you all for help, keep it coming! I really appreciate it.

 

[AcroFan144]

I have just received 6 SPS frags as a gift from my friend. I was not planning on adding them this soon, but he called me and offered them for free, so I accepted.

I have received:

Purple Sylophora
Green Montipora capricornis
Red Montipora digitata
Green Montipora digitata
Bird of Paradise Seriatopora
Seriatopora caliendrum

Some of the frags are very pale, as they were the 'left behinds' of fragging.

I have increased my testing schedule - ALK every 2 days, the rest once a week. All parameters are stable and within good ranges.

I have placed the frags on the bottom of the tank to light acclimate. I was planning on keeping them there for a week, before finally gluing them to the aquascape. Any objections to this? Should I leave them on the sandbed shorter/longer? I would like to see them dark up a bit before moving them higher.

 

[dwest]

I have just received 6 SPS frags as a gift from my friend. I was not planning on adding them this soon, but he called me and offered them for free, so I accepted.

I have received:

Purple Sylophora
Green Montipora capricornis
Red Montipora digitata
Green Montipora digitata
Bird of Paradise Seriatopora
Seriatopora caliendrum

Some of the frags are very pale, as they were the 'left behinds' of fragging.

I have increased my testing schedule - ALK every 2 days, the rest once a week. All parameters are stable and within good ranges.

I have placed the frags on the bottom of the tank to light acclimate. I was planning on keeping them there for a week, before finally gluing them to the aquascape. Any objections to this? Should I leave them on the sandbed shorter/longer? I would like to see them dark up a bit before moving them higher.

Good plan. Also, in my tank I have good success with acros, montis, and stylo. But seriatopora have never liked my tank. So don’t be too surprised if some make it and one or two don’t.

 

[AcroFan144]

Good plan. Also, in my tank I have good success with acros, montis, and stylo. But seriatopora have never liked my tank. So don’t be too surprised if some make it and one or two don’t.

Thank you, good to know. I really like how Seriatopora colonies look, so I hope to have success with them.

 

[AcroFan144]

Here they are, on their second day on the sandbed. Some of them are really pale, but I hope they will darken over time.

 

[Chibils]

Thank you, good to know. I really like how Seriatopora colonies look, so I hope to have success with them.

I think they are underrated, because they're a lot simpler and less varied than acros, but they're actually my favorite coral. I wish you luck with your new acquisitions, particularly the birdsnest.

 

[Dr. Jim]

5. What would be your recommended values for NO3 in my tank?

Guys, I want to hear all the suggestions you have.

First, I would like to take this opportunity to make it clear that I was not disagreeing with what others have told you but rather was ADDING suggestions to the good information that has already been said.

In retrospect, I probably should have left out what I mentioned about nitrate test kits, not that that is not important, but there are many more important factors to discuss. Since I mentioned test kits, I should have put more emphasis on Alkalinity kits since they show the greatest variability and perhaps have the greatest importance. Some will say the absolute value isn't as important as stability. Alk stability is definitely VERY important, but if your reading is stable BUT off, you may be maintaining an alkalinity at 7.6 when you think it is 8.0. (I could write a whole lot more about kits but won't right now). I'll just say that for a new tank or one having problems, an Alk of around 8.0 is what I would recommend, rather than a higher level, and use 2 or 3 kits to help decide on an absolute value. (Hanna checker is good IMO but ONLY IF you take immaculate care of the vials, including rinsing the outside with RO/DI and drying with a microfiber clothe before use).

But since you asked about NO3 levels, the answer is vague. Many tanks do well at different levels, ranging from perhaps 2 - 25 (or higher). I like 5-10. But nitrates are probably not your problem.

I mentioned pH because nobody asked you about it and since you didn't mention it I guessed that you don't measure it (which is OK). A lot of reefers don't measure it, including myself before I got a GHL Controller. (But now, I won't live without a pH probe). pH liquid kits aren't accurate and pH probes are a pain to maintain and to some, expensive. It is well known that a pH of 8.2-8.4 is more desirable than 7.8-8.0. Although many may be doing fine with 7.8-8.0, it could be that if YOU are in this range, along with other variables that aren't ideal, it could be that simply raising the pH to the more desirable range may be enough to allow your corals to survive. AND, I would bet anything that your pH is probably not in the upper range (unless your house has open windows 24/7). My suggestion of running an air pipe to a window WILL raise your pH. (No kit or probe is essential). Of course there may be some other serious underlying problem (hence, my suggestion for ICP test) in which case the increased pH may not be a "cure-all." But, in the long run, after your problem is solved, the higher pH can only help to improve growth (and health).
If you are interested in suggestions as to how to plumb to a window, I can try to help.

You seemed a little reluctant to take my advice about adding coral food/nutrients (other than PO4 and NO3). I've told this valuable story many times: It may have been 20 years ago when I had a large frag tank high on a platform behind my 500 gal tank. All the frags were brown. I started using ZeoVit additives where I would just reach up and add drops into the frag tank. To look into the tank I had to climb 2 steps but because I was going through a hectic time, I didn't look into the tank for about 3 weeks....I just added the drops. Finally, when I did climb the steps and look in, 3 weeks later, I saw colors I never saw before: reds, blues, purples, yellows! Now, of course, 20 years ago, the knowledge and technology wasn't what it is today so maybe these additives back then were the "missing link" where today they may not be?? But still, I have been using many ZeoVit additives ever since. FWIW, my recommended ZeoVit additives to start with are: Coral Vitalizer; Amino Acids; Sponge Power; Pohls Xtra.

Hope this helps.

Jim
Reefing 50+ yrs; SPS 25+ yrs; (see my "Bio" if you would like)

 

[AcroFan144]

Same thing happening again on Monti cap. Tissue is getting thinner and colors fade away. Probably will be dead in a week.

Sg 1.0264
Temp 25.5 C
KH 8
Ca 450
Mg 1400
NO3 5
PO4 0.04

1 week ago

now

 

[AcroFan144]

Unfortunately, I have lost all but 2 frags. BOP Seriatopora and Purple Stylophora are still hanging on, with birdnest tissue starting to get thinner and thinner.

The process is the same, frags slowly lose color and their tissue gets 'thinner', until skeleton starts showing up. It takes a week or more for all the tissue to disappear. Again I am in that 2-3 week range after adding new frags when I keep losing SPS. My LPS are doing great, which is giving me hope.

I will not be trying any new SPS frags in a few months. I am looking to buy a new dosing pump and set up kalkwasser dosing on it. I will also start using Soda ash instead of Sodium bicarbonate, trying to get my pH up ( even though I have not measured it yet, but can't imagine it being too high).

I have increased fish load and feeding further, now putting me at 12 fish in 60 gallon display tank. I am feeding 2x a day, total of 3 cubes of frozen food and 3 'scoops' of dry food.

Parameters are still in check:

SG 1.0264
Temp 25.5C
KH 8-8.3
Ca 450
Mg 1400
NO3 5-10
PO4 0.04

I will be doing an ICP in the near future.

Thank you for all the suggestions, I will report in a few months (or earlier, if I get impatient). Maybe letting the tank mature a bit more will bring me more success.

Cheers guys, looking forward to hearing from you again.

 

[Big E]

If these were all pale to start you put in stressed corals.......not always a good way to test your system. Try to use test corals that are healthy with a good zoo population. Anything that you put in that's pale becomes a challenge and not a good indicator.
Any coral that was pale on arrival it's a good idea to keep them from any direct light till they darken up. It's easy to bleach new arrivals. I prefer to brown up anything that is pale vs keeping a pale frag in direct light.

What height is the fixture..........bulbs to water surface distance? If you can raise your lights do that and/or reduce the photoperiod to a total of 8 hours for now. If you want the dawn/dusk.......run all on for 6 hours and and hour each for dawn/dusk. This can be moved up later when the corals are thriving, but for now I would keep duration low.

Other than this I wouldn't do anything until you get ICP results due to your solids level. That is bothersome and something I would fix even if the ICP shows nothing. I'd suggest talking to an expert, on RODI systems to help. I call Buckeye hydro as they are somewhat local to me and have been very helpful in the past.

K- potassium could be low.......not likely but it's worth noting and the ICP should give you that info.

If I’m reading your post correctly you replaced all your rock a month ago?
If so, even with live rock I would expect there to be a rebalancing period after such a destabilizing event in your tank. Bacteria might be dying off and reestablishing new populations due to the change in water chemistry going from one tank to another. This would all be undetectable in the parameters we test for but make for an unstable water chemistry all the same. Possibly with some ammonia detectable in the system if anything.
That would be my first guess unless I’ve misread your initial post.

This is great advice as many times you just have to be patient and let some time pass with stable parameters.
It would be best to focus on stability and not start doing anything chemically or using additives of any kind.

There's plenty of good advice in this thread but the problem people run into they do 10 different things all at once and many times end up making things worse than if they did nothing at all.

Anytime you're trouble shooting it's good to be systematic and focus on the most likely simple causes. Think "occams razor".

 

[AcroFan144]

If these were all pale to start you put in stressed corals.......not always a good way to test your system. Try to use test corals that are healthy with a good zoo population. Anything that you put in that's pale becomes a challenge and not a good indicator.
Any coral that was pale on arrival it's a good idea to keep them from any direct light till they darken up. It's easy to bleach new arrivals. I prefer to brown up anything that is pale vs keeping a pale frag in direct light.

What height is the fixture..........bulbs to water surface distance? If you can raise your lights do that and/or reduce the photoperiod to a total of 8 hours for now. If you want the dawn/dusk.......run all on for 6 hours and and hour each for dawn/dusk. This can be moved up later when the corals are thriving, but for now I would keep duration low.

Other than this I wouldn't do anything until you get ICP results due to your solids level. That is bothersome and something I would fix even if the ICP shows nothing. I'd suggest talking to an expert, on RODI systems to help. I call Buckeye hydro as they are somewhat local to me and have been very helpful in the past.

K- potassium could be low.......not likely but it's worth noting and the ICP should give you that info.



This is great advice as many times you just have to be patient and let some time pass with stable parameters.
It would be best to focus on stability and not start doing anything chemically or using additives of any kind.

There's plenty of good advice in this thread but the problem people run into they do 10 different things all at once and many times end up making things worse than if they did nothing at all.

Anytime you're trouble shooting it's good to be systematic and focus on the most likely simple causes. Think "occams razor".

Hey BigE, thanks for the suggestions. The fixture is ~6 inches from the water level. I have reduced the photoperiod to 8 hours of all 6 bulbs on, as you have suggested.

How do you recommend I upgrade my RODI system? I have a basic one consisting of 1 fine particulate material, 1 carbon block, RO membrane and 2 DI cartridges.

Since my LPS are doing well, I will focus on aquiring few that I wish to keep, and in the meantime will make the tank as stable as possible.

 

[AcroFan144]

 

[Heisenberg 78]

I have faced and currently face them similar issues to yourself, not so much montipora but acros..

One issue which @Big E rightfully pointed out was potassium, I didn’t see that in your regular test results: which I’m seeing as an overlooked category in your quest for problem solving.

I used to suffer with poorly coloured tissue on my Montipora; after months of head scratching and not knowing the cause, the answer became apparent when a reefer I bounce questions off countered something I mentioned.
I supplement my trace elements by using TM elements A- and K+
“the K+”, I thought contained potassium (as in K ...Kalium) I later found that the products didn‘t contain potassium, so for all that time had no idea my levels were depleted

I bought potassium chloride and added this on to a Doser; within a few days my montis were glowing like never before.

See the attached which should give you a resemblance of a low K level in your system.

 

[Big E]

Hey BigE, thanks for the suggestions. The fixture is ~6 inches from the water level. I have reduced the photoperiod to 8 hours of all 6 bulbs on, as you have suggested.

How do you recommend I upgrade my RODI system? I have a basic one consisting of 1 fine particulate material, 1 carbon block, RO membrane and 2 DI cartridges.

Since my LPS are doing well, I will focus on aquiring few that I wish to keep, and in the meantime will make the tank as stable as possible.

Sorry, I missed these questions.

Did you ever get an ICP test done? ATI has the RO water test for free, which is what I recommend.

I have the same RO setup as you but, but my tap is 166. Call an expert...........Buckeye hydro is my go to expert.

What's the current status of the corals?

 

[litenyaup]

I have not done an ICP test, maybe that would be smart.

My TDS is around 1-5, I am having very hard time getting 0. My tap water TDS is 600, so I run through tons of DI resin.

Are you on city water or well, if city test for chloramines, if we’ll set up a degassing chamber as your co2 may be the issue. If your going through that much Di that may be part of issue.

 

[PBar]

Dear colleagues,
reading carefully all advices, seems that everything makes sense in general depending on the situation.
However, in my personal opinion, if any sps frag is dying within a month in a “beginner sps tank“, it is very likely (in terms of probability) that the system is missing something more basic than complex.
Again, I’m assuming that the fish and soft corals are surviving in this aquarium.

Some advices are ”more“ related/linked to improve color, grow... which it apparently is not the case here yet.
The examples of frags above are normally rather easy to keep.

In my opinion, it would be very helpful a video or some photos of the whole system.
And, of course, if possible an ICP test.

Best of luck!