Help please! Frag tank crashed and cannot be recovered

[superboy100]

Hi Friends,

My frag tank is a 20 gallon all in one. Fully cycled since 2020. I had a fairy wrasse in there along with some snails and emerald crabs and probably 30 frags. Last week, I heard a splash and saw that my Fairy Wrasse jumped out of the tank (yes I know, fish jump and I should have a cover). I put him back in and noticed he was having trouble breathing so I got him out of the tank and but him in my display tank so I could run some tests. Results:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
Calcium, Mag, Alk all normal.

After the tests, I noticed the crabs moving very slow or not at all so I removed all the inverts as well. I did a 25% water change and waited overnight.

The next day I notice my corals starting to lose color and retract so I tested parameters again. Nothing unusual. I put a hermit crab in the tank to see if the water was ok and within 5 minutes he had managed to climb his way out of the tank. I removed all the corals and gave them a coral bath and put them in the display tank. Performed a 90% water change. Waited 24 hours and tested the parameters again, nothing unusual. Put in the Hermit crab again and same results, he is climbing out of the tank. Performed another 90% water change. Waited 24 hours and tested the parameters again, nothing unusual. Put in the Hermit crab again and same results, he is climbing out of the tank.

So here I am completely clueless as to what is crashing my tank.

Are there any tests I have missed? Has anyone ever heard of this happening after 2 90% water changes? I fear I will have to tear down the whole tank, wash everything and start a new cycle.

Any advice or questions for me before I tear apart the tank?

Appreciate your support.

 

[damsels are not mean]

What does the tank look like? What equipment do you have? Is there a heater? Pumps in the water? Could be electricity from a damaged piece of equipment. What is the temperature?

 

[superboy100]

Tunze wavemaker, digital heater (77 degrees), Sicce return pump. Water is clear

Hmmm perhaps it could be an electrical issue, how do you recommend I troubleshoot that without shocking myself

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you ever dose anything to it?

Are all the devices on GFCI?

Do you have a electrical multimeter?

 

[superboy100]

Do you ever dose anything to it?

Are all the devices on GFCI?

Do you have a electrical multimeter?

I am dosing All 4 reef but a small amount. Yes everything is on a GFCI, I dont have a multimeter. I guess that is the way to test?

 

[superboy100]

Do you ever dose anything to it?

Are all the devices on GFCI?

Do you have a electrical multimeter?

I am dosing All 4 reef but a small amount. Yes everything is on a GFCI, I dont have a multimeter. I guess that is the way to test?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If its on a GFCI and hasn't tripped, I don't strongly suspect electrical issues. But a multimeter can help determine if there are electrical issues. That said, I'd first look for other issues.

Have you measured ammonia?

 

[charles7]

Cant tds affect coral and inverts? Maybe a magnet leeching something other than iron? I have a 20L frag tank so im interested as well. Something could be rusting although in forums people go back and forth, i do feel that in smaller systems like ours, its much more of an issue.

 

[red02]

you need to put a good amount of carbon in the tank that will help if
anything got in the tank

 

[superboy100]

If its on a GFCI and hasn't tripped, I don't strongly suspect electrical issues. But a multimeter can help determine if there are electrical issues. That said, I'd first look for other issues.

Have you measured ammonia?

Yep measured everything, ammonia is zero

 

[superboy100]

Cant tds affect coral and inverts? Maybe a magnet leeching something other than iron? I have a 20L frag tank so im interested as well. Something could be rusting although in forums people go back and forth, i do feel that in smaller systems like ours, its much more of an issue.

All my electrical stuff is fairly new, I have backups sonim going to replace the pumps and heater and see

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Cant tds affect coral and inverts? Maybe a magnet leeching something other than iron? I have a 20L frag tank so im interested as well. Something could be rusting although in forums people go back and forth, i do feel that in smaller systems like ours, its much more of an issue.

TDS is not an individual thing in the water. It is the sum of all ions, and natural seawater is tens of thousands of ppm TDS.

Rusting metal parts can certainly add metals to the water, however.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yep measured everything, ammonia is zero

Well, sorry, I'm not sure what the issue is.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

It may be a bad batch of salt. I have a friend whose tank almost crashed.
Also, check with your multimeter. Turn off equipment one by one. Suggest you use Polyfilter.

 

[charles7]

TDS is not an individual thing in the water. It is the sum of all ions, and natural seawater is tens of thousands of ppm TDS.

Rusting metal parts can certainly add metals to the water, however.

Yes, i know what tds is and i also keep shrimp where tds matters a whole lot more. Tds is total dissolved solids and unpure magnets consisting of more than iron can harbor a lot of nasty metals that can show up on tds and be detrimental. From what ive read iron isnt a big problem but if it has other metals ya know…. Im not an expert if it bothers saltwater but you go up 50 for shrimp and you can potentially wipe the babies first then the adults a week or two when they cant molt properly and die.

 

[arking_mark]

Hi Friends,

My frag tank is a 20 gallon all in one. Fully cycled since 2020. I had a fairy wrasse in there along with some snails and emerald crabs and probably 30 frags. Last week, I heard a splash and saw that my Fairy Wrasse jumped out of the tank (yes I know, fish jump and I should have a cover). I put him back in and noticed he was having trouble breathing so I got him out of the tank and but him in my display tank so I could run some tests. Results:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
Calcium, Mag, Alk all normal.

After the tests, I noticed the crabs moving very slow or not at all so I removed all the inverts as well. I did a 25% water change and waited overnight.

The next day I notice my corals starting to lose color and retract so I tested parameters again. Nothing unusual. I put a hermit crab in the tank to see if the water was ok and within 5 minutes he had managed to climb his way out of the tank. I removed all the corals and gave them a coral bath and put them in the display tank. Performed a 90% water change. Waited 24 hours and tested the parameters again, nothing unusual. Put in the Hermit crab again and same results, he is climbing out of the tank. Performed another 90% water change. Waited 24 hours and tested the parameters again, nothing unusual. Put in the Hermit crab again and same results, he is climbing out of the tank.

So here I am completely clueless as to what is crashing my tank.

Are there any tests I have missed? Has anyone ever heard of this happening after 2 90% water changes? I fear I will have to tear down the whole tank, wash everything and start a new cycle.

Any advice or questions for me before I tear apart the tank?

Appreciate your support.

I had something similar happen to me. It turned out my return pump performance went to almost zero...and tank had lack of oxygen.

I now keep a powerhead and clean them both regularly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, i know what tds is and i also keep shrimp where tds matters a whole lot more. Tds is total dissolved solids and unpure magnets consisting of more than iron can harbor a lot of nasty metals that can show up on tds and be detrimental. From what ive read iron isnt a big problem but if it has other metals ya know…. Im not an expert if it bothers saltwater but you go up 50 for shrimp and you can potentially wipe the babies first then the adults a week or two when they cant molt properly and die.

OK, I accept that you understand what tds is, but then it is just strange to ask whether tds can impact corals. It’s no different than asking if powders can be toxic to corals.

Obviously, the answer to both questions is it depends on what the actual materials are.

 

[charles7]

OK, I accept that you understand what tds is, but then it is just strange to ask whether tds can impact corals. It’s no different than asking if powders can be toxic to corals.

Obviously, the answer to both questions is it depends on what the actual materials are.

Because im not gonna list the short hand or long hand of every single metal on the table. For the most part you can have too many of one metal or anything in your tank. So why is this such a bad idea? I can shoot a 3 page essay of nothing but words describing metals or i can say tds thats in ppm. I didnt ask for him to get a test run through something like icp, i asked a general question that you turned so complicated for no reason. You act like tds ranges dont matter but I can make it pretty darn high by dumping a quart of pure pottasium in because hey tds doesnt matter right? Then it nukes the tank. How is this any different from a magnet that isnt pure, leaching metals that have a negative impact on life in the tank.

I asked was can’t tds affect corals and inverts? General question someone who knows more might pick up on, added that magnets can leach metals as well if exposed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Because im not gonna list the short hand or long hand of every single metal on the table. For the most part you can have too many of one metal or anything in your tank. So why is this such a bad idea? I can shoot a 3 page essay of nothing but words describing metals or i can say tds thats in ppm. I didnt ask for him to get a test run through something like icp, i asked a general question that you turned so complicated for no reason. You act like tds ranges dont matter but I can make it pretty darn high by dumping a quart of pure pottasium in because hey tds doesnt matter right? Then it nukes the tank. How is this any different from a magnet that isnt pure, leaching metals that have a negative impact on life in the tank.

I asked was can’t tds affect corals and inverts? General question someone who knows more might pick up on, added that magnets can leach metals as well if exposed.

It is a perfectly fine idea to suggest metal toxicity. No one is asking you to suggest the specific metals, although one could. We do know what metals are a concern for corals.

Im just trying to help you and others disentangle what you meant from the confusing way your wrote it by calling metals “tds”.

Tds is not ever any sort of suitable indicator of toxicity or metal content of seawater or tap water or RO/ DI water. Some metals, such as copper, are toxic at levels well below what a typical tds meter can detect. Some metals may be bound to organics in a way that they would not even show up on a tds meter (tin heat stabilizers in plastic , for example, can fit that). Normal seawater contains 35,000 ppm TDS and corals thrive in it.

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Check for copper if you haven't yet. High in copper could mean something is rusting. Where is your tank located?