HELP! Scooter dragonet sick/dying?

[Elbereth]

I bought an emaciated ruby red scooter dragonet two weeks ago. He's been eating frozen brine and Reef Nutrition ROE quite well though and started putting on some weight. However, today I found him very lethargic and barely moving and realized I'd let the nitrates get high by feeding him so often so I transferred him to a hospital bucket with some freshly mixed saltwater. Just a while ago I saw him on his back and thought he'd died but when I tapped the bucket he flipped around again. Still I'm worried this might be a sign of swim bladder issues? I'm monitoring him to observe other symptoms that might help diagnose but anything I could do for now? I have API General Cure, PraziPro, Fritz Maracyn Two and Kordon Methylene Blue. Anything I should try as a prophylactic treatment? I wouldn't normally treat without knowing more but I'm worried if I wait too long he won't make it.

I really want to try and save this little fella so any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I bought an emaciated ruby red scooter dragonet two weeks ago. He's been eating frozen brine and Reef Nutrition ROE quite well though and started putting on some weight. However, today I found him very lethargic and barely moving and realized I'd let the nitrates get high by feeding him so often so I transferred him to a hospital bucket with some freshly mixed saltwater. Just a while ago I saw him on his back and thought he'd died but when I tapped the bucket he flipped around again. Still I'm worried this might be a sign of swim bladder issues? I'm monitoring him to observe other symptoms that might help diagnose but anything I could do for now? I have API General Cure, PraziPro, Fritz Maracyn Two and Kordon Methylene Blue. Anything I should try as a prophylactic treatment? I wouldn't normally treat without knowing more but I'm worried if I wait too long he won't make it.

I really want to try and save this little fella so any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Before an accurate suggestion can be made, need to assess fish which is done by photos and video under white lighting. If video- at least 20 seconds.

 

[Elbereth]

He's died. Possibly was dead when I thought I saw him turn around - it was probably just the water current.

Really bummed because he was eating well. Could he have died because of high nitrates? It was my understanding that nitrates have to be REALLY high before fish start showing adverse effects.

Or if it's not nitrates, anything else I can do differently next time? I love the dragonet family but I've had several die mysteriously like this, going from eating really well to lethargic and dead within the span of a day or two. No visible sign of ich or velvet but it could've been in the gills. Should I invest in a microscope to start taking samples? Should I put them straight into quarantine with some sort of medication? I was going to let this guy get fatter before I started treating him but maybe I shouldn't have waited.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I bought an emaciated ruby red scooter dragonet two weeks ago. He's been eating frozen brine and Reef Nutrition ROE quite well though and started putting on some weight. However, today I found him very lethargic and barely moving and realized I'd let the nitrates get high by feeding him so often so I transferred him to a hospital bucket with some freshly mixed saltwater. Just a while ago I saw him on his back and thought he'd died but when I tapped the bucket he flipped around again. Still I'm worried this might be a sign of swim bladder issues? I'm monitoring him to observe other symptoms that might help diagnose but anything I could do for now? I have API General Cure, PraziPro, Fritz Maracyn Two and Kordon Methylene Blue. Anything I should try as a prophylactic treatment? I wouldn't normally treat without knowing more but I'm worried if I wait too long he won't make it.

I really want to try and save this little fella so any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

High nitrates would not cause an acute health issue like that. I’m about 90% sure dragonets don’t have swim bladders so you can also rule that out.
I presume it’s not eating now? There may not be a whole lot you can do at this point. As @vetteguy53081 mentioned, a short video would help.

Jay

 

[Elbereth]

Yes, I also thought that high nitrates can't suddenly make a fish get that sick. He's dead now but I'd like to know why he died if possible because I see this happen to so many dragonets. I'll try a freshwater dip to see if flukes come out I guess.

 

[Lavey29]

Yes, I also thought that high nitrates can't suddenly make a fish get that sick. He's dead now but I'd like to know why he died if possible because I see this happen to so many dragonets. I'll try a freshwater dip to see if flukes come out I guess.

How old is your tank? Mandarin need to be in an established reef tank preferably over a year old. They need en established pod population irregardless of eating other foods because they need to peck and eat constantly. They consume thousands of pods per day.

 

[Elbereth]

I know, it's not my first time having a dragonet. Lots of pods in the tank and as I said in my first post he was eating frozen and starting to put on weight. I would assume it wasn't starvation since the onset was so quick although he was extremely emaciated when I got him and is still skinny so maybe? Still doesn't seem like that would've been the primary cause though.

 

[Lavey29]

I know, it's not my first time having a dragonet. Lots of pods in the tank and as I said in my first post he was eating frozen and starting to put on weight. I would assume it wasn't starvation since the onset was so quick although he was extremely emaciated when I got him and is still skinny so maybe? Still doesn't seem like that would've been the primary cause though.

I only mention it because you indicated you have lost multiple mandarin fish which to me indicates an environment problem. May not be the cause for this specific fish but as you stated it's multiple fish now so either your LFS is selling unhealthy or your tank is not sustainable for them.

 

[Elbereth]

Fair enough. I should've mentioned those fish were all eating well and well on the way to becoming fat. I've had this happen over the course of several years now and I should've documented the symptoms better but from what I remember it was always similar - a very quick decline over a day or two with no visible symptom of disease.

 

[Lavey29]

Fair enough. I should've mentioned those fish were all eating well and well on the way to becoming fat. I've had this happen over the course of several years now and I should've documented the symptoms better but from what I remember it was always similar - a very quick decline over a day or two with no visible symptom of disease.

Are you getting from the same LFS? Depending on how they are captured they may be in decline prior to you acquiring. They actually use tiny harpoon in some places to get them out of the rocks my LFS told me.

 

[Lavey29]

Fair enough. I should've mentioned those fish were all eating well and well on the way to becoming fat. I've had this happen over the course of several years now and I should've documented the symptoms better but from what I remember it was always similar - a very quick decline over a day or two with no visible symptom of disease.

Do you have any fish that might be aggressive towards them?

 

[Elbereth]

Yes, I have bought from the same few stores. I suspected ich/velvet at the wholesaler but I never considered the capture method. Interesting.

No other fish because I've always kept them in dedicated tanks to train them to eat and then to minimize competition for food. I have a spotted mandarin in another tank that I've had for several years now so I seem to be able to keep them long term unless they come down with this mystery disease.

EDIT: And it always strikes within the first couple of months of me getting the fish.

 

[Lavey29]

Yes, I have bought from the same few stores. I suspected ich/velvet at the wholesaler but I never considered the capture method. Interesting.

No other fish because I've always kept them in dedicated tanks to train them to eat and then to minimize competition for food. I have a spotted mandarin in another tank that I've had for several years now so I seem to be able to keep them long term unless they come down with this mystery disease.

Well you are being diligent with your fish. My LFS said the ones that get harpooned struggle surviving in tanks. We see the same thing though with fish that are gassed for capture. Lingering health issues. I watched the mandarin I got from my LFS for over a month and he had them almost 4 months total to make sure they appeared healthy before taking him home.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I bought an emaciated ruby red scooter dragonet two weeks ago.

Pretty sure this is the culprit... When fish starve, their organs are damaged, usually beyond repair, and even if they begin eating again, will die.

Even though I'm a huge rescue person when it comes to other pets, I no longer give in to the temptation to rescue fish from an LFS... IME, it never ends well.

I'm sorry for your loss

 

[Elbereth]

Well you are being diligent with your fish. My LFS said the ones that get harpooned struggle surviving in tanks. We see the same thing though with fish that are gassed for capture. Lingering health issues. I watched the mandarin I got from my LFS for over a month and he had them almost 4 months total to make sure they appeared healthy before taking him home.

Yes that's ideal when you can observe the fish long-term. My LFS get them quite rarely now and they tend to sell quickly so I can't usually wait that long. Last time I waited a week to observe a pair of spotted mandarins to see if they would eat and the female just kept getting skinnier. By the time I decided to bring them home she didn't make it.

Clearly I should do some more research though. Thank you for mentioning that.

 

[Elbereth]

Pretty sure this is the culprit... When fish starve, their organs are damaged, usually beyond repair, and even if they begin eating again, will die.

Even though I'm a huge rescue person when it comes to other pets, I no longer give in to the temptation to rescue fish from an LFS... IME, it never ends well.

I'm sorry for your loss

You're probably right. He still had a concave stomach even after two weeks of eating well so I guess it was starvation after all.

Thank you, at least it makes me feel a bit less guilty. I wish I could stop! At least I don't buy dragonets that aren't eating at the store but otherwise I can't resist because they're just my favourite saltwater fish.

 

[Elbereth]

In case this will be helpful to anyone else later, I should mention freshwater dip showed no sign of flukes. Not to the naked eye at least.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You're probably right. He still had a concave stomach even after two weeks of eating well so I guess it was starvation after all.

Thank you, at least it makes me feel a bit less guilty. I wish I could stop! At least I don't buy dragonets that aren't eating at the store but otherwise I can't resist because they're just my favourite saltwater fish.

Consider buying captive bred from Biota/ORA...

 

[Elbereth]

I probably should next time! Last time one LFS here had them in stock I didn't because they were ridiculously tiny and I was afraid I wouldn't have enough pods to keep it alive because I've always supplemented pods with frozen feeding. But considering the adults have a high chance of dying too I should probably risk it next time.

 

[Lavey29]

I probably should next time! Last time one LFS here had them in stock I didn't because they were ridiculously tiny and I was afraid I wouldn't have enough pods to keep it alive because I've always supplemented pods with frozen feeding. But considering the adults have a high chance of dying too I should probably risk it next time.

Where are you located? My LFS has a nice healthy looking one in stock living in his huge rock sump. He's been there 3 weeks now. Just eats pods in the sump though.