Help with advice for fully stocking a tank in one shot...

[Artistic Oceans]

I'm pretty experienced overall but have a unique situation. I've had alot of tanks but never a small tank. I just bought a waterbox 20g aio cube. I'm setting it up as a reef tank.

I want to avoid any issues so I'm obviously quarantining my fish. But time is hard to find so I wanted to buy pre-quarantined fish. The issue is shipping unless I spend $500. I want to add 5 fish; Possum wrasse, clown goby, pink streaked wrasse, yashida goby and a tailspot blenny in one shot to get the free shipping.

I'm cycling the tank now (fishless with dr tims) and microbacter 7. I added some rubble and sand from aquabiomics and some live rock from another clean tank to try and maximize my bacteria diversity. The bio-load is kind of at the limit with 5 fish for a 20g and I dont want an ammonia spike and to kill everything when I get it. I'm wondering if I can keep adding ammonia and increasing the dosage to increase the bacteria to make this a safe addition.

Any advise would be appreciated.

EDIT: I had an idea of adding freshwater mollies (say one a week) while waiting for the qt fish and swap them all out when the saltwater fish come as an alternative idea.

 

[MartinM]

I'm pretty experienced overall but have a unique situation. I've had alot of tanks but never a small tank. I just bought a waterbox 20g aio cube. I'm setting it up as a reef tank.

I want to avoid any issues so I'm obviously quarantining my fish. But time is hard to find so I wanted to buy pre-quarantined fish. The issue is shipping unless I spend $500. I want to add 5 fish; Possum wrasse, clown goby, pink streaked wrasse, yashida goby and a tailspot blenny in one shot to get the free shipping.

I'm cycling the tank now (fishless with dr tims) and microbacter 7. I added some rubble and sand from aquabiomics and some live rock from another clean tank to try and maximize my bacteria diversity. The bio-load is kind of at the limit with 5 fish for a 20g and I dont want an ammonia spike and to kill everything when I get it. I'm wondering if I can keep adding ammonia and increasing the dosage to increase the bacteria to make this a safe addition.

Any advise would be appreciated.

EDIT: I had an idea of adding freshwater mollies (say one a week) while waiting for the qt fish and swap them all out when the saltwater fish come as an alternative idea.

I always recommend using live rock, then there is no cycle. And much more biodiversity. And many less problems.

 

[Macbalacano]

I’m curious is anyone will have a good answer for you. To me, I feel that the risk is too high, just to save on shipping costs. You could have multiple problems - ammonia spike, nutrient spike causing other issues such as algae boom, fish becoming very stressed or territorial, etc.

If it were me, I’d do it slow and always put the most aggressive fish in last after the more peaceful ones have settled.

Just my 2 cents. Best of luck!

 

[UMALUM]

Amquel...

 

[kevgib67]

I agree with @Macbalacano , I think it would be to much to fast. Doable in a large established tank but the bacteria would not be able to catch up to the bio load quickly enough. Perhaps in a tank with all live rock, I’d still be checking ammonia like crazy with fresh salt water on hand.

 

[bigbugoutfitters]

Maybe plan on doing daily waterchanges for a while? Not sure…

 

[Artistic Oceans]

I agree with @Macbalacano , I think it would be to much to fast. Doable in a large established tank but the bacteria would not be able to catch up to the bio load quickly enough. Perhaps in a tank with all live rock, I’d still be checking ammonia like crazy with fresh salt water on hand.

Thats why I was asking specifically, if I keep increasing the ammonia dosing to magnify the amount of bacteria that exists, if that would do it.

 

[kevgib67]

Thats why I was asking specifically, if I keep increasing the ammonia dosing to magnify the amount of bacteria that exists, if that would do it.

Ok, let me see if I’m getting this, bare with me I went to public school. Correct me if I’m wrong. You have the tank set up with dry rock and you add the live rock. You are not going to plop and drop 5 fish in but instead add additional bacteria, feed the bacteria on the live rock over a course of time so that it spreads to the surface of the dry rock increasing the ability to handle a larger initial bio load. Am I on the same page or in a different library?

 

[Artistic Oceans]

Ok, let me see if I’m getting this, bare with me I went to public school. Correct me if I’m wrong. You have the tank set up with dry rock and you add the live rock. You are not going to plop and drop 5 fish in but instead add additional bacteria, feed the bacteria on the live rock over a course of time so that it spreads to the surface of the dry rock increasing the ability to handle a larger initial bio load. Am I on the same page or in a different library?

Thats the idea in a nutshell.

 

[Lavey29]

What's the hurry to overload the 15g (20g with rock) new tank with to many fish?

 

[Miami Reef]

What's the hurry to overload the 15g (20g with rock) new tank with to many fish?

I agree. In my opinion, the main goal of reefing is to delay to final outcome. As soon as the tank becomes fully stocked and finished, many people get bored of it.

The fun is the wait, believe it or not.

Try to prolong the experience. Enjoy the process.

 

[maroun.c]

Can it be done or has it been done: yes
It does help that the fish ur adding are small in size and not on the heavy load side, yet on the other hand tank volume is small as well.
I wouldn't do it but if u really have to Dr Tim or any other instant bacteria and dosing a bit of ammonia will speed up the cycle. I would make sure ammonia and nitrites is down to 0 and u see nitrates going up before u add the fish.
Having an ammonia alert in the tank and having water ready for 50 percebt water changes every couple days if needed is a must, this would slow down the cycle yet prevent losses from ammonia should it appear.
A seeded cotton or rock from established tank will also help.

 

[kevgib67]

What's the hurry to overload the 15g (20g with rock) new tank with to many fish?

I agree. In my opinion, the main goal of reefing is to delay to final outcome. As soon as the tank becomes fully stocked and finished, many people get bored of it.

The fun is the wait, believe it or not.

Try to prolong the experience. Enjoy the process.

I am not disagreeing and my thoughts exactly when I read this. This is OP thought process. He doesn’t want to qt himself. He is planning on buying pre-qt fish. Splitting up shipments he pays two additional shipping fees. Buying all 5 puts him over the threshold and gives him free shipping. It’s a money and qt thing.

 

[kevgib67]

Thats the idea in a nutshell.

I would say that I wouldn’t do it and there is risk involved (you would have way more in common with the younger me over a decade ago). But there is risk involved every time we add any living and non living thing to our tank. Is it doable? Yes but I would have an ammonia alert and premade saltwater on hand and be available for 2-3 days to monitor. I’ll be looking forward to hearing about the successful outcome. By the way, really nice list of fish that you chose.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

personally I would stock more slowly. 5 fish in a 20 is overstocked IMO, and all at one time, is a big risk, I wouldn't take that risk just to save $20-$30.

But thats just my 2 cents which is worth nothing, happy holidays.

 

[RJT]

I think it can be done once the tank is fully cycled. The tank will need a 20-50% water change every 2 days for a couple of weeks, I would add bacteria with every water change. And don't rely on an ammonia badge, they aren't always reliable. The proposed fish aren't overly sensitive and should be okay.

 

[brandon429]

I’ve been watching this thread for a couple days

again, the dichotomy between buyers and sellers is stark


we have all either seen or been to a reef tank convention right

youtube has thirty different ones over twenty years logged

notice that in every one, the sellers have fully stocked tanks that don’t need any help during the convention, they never crash, nobody fears ammonia control? Did we notice the sellers never hesitate over cycling, you never see any miss the convention start date on time with tanks carrying forty fish and two hundred grand in corals


but on forums, it’s wildly different. It’s like the op is asking to do the riskiest thing in reefing that might not even work


that distinction in resolve, fear, risk, and procedure is new vs old cycling science

forum reefers use old cycling science, ammonia fear training, because that keeps them buyers

sellers, the kings of the convention and the receivers of cash vs the dolers use polar opposite rules that always command cycles dry or live start with the same outcome and that’s fascinating to me, I don’t think it will ever end

even in 2028 reef tank forums will be in fear of controlled start date cycling though sellers have been using this option for thirty years- someone should write a reefing article on that.

 

[brandon429]

I took six seconds to search and found this thread for a full stock dry start one day setup, there’s several online

how much fear testing and water changes and overall concern happened here?

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

disease is the risk and behavioral issues in fish, not the cycle


it’s as hard as tipping a bottle of bac into the tank once, then the cycle is done, that’s what’s being withheld from buyers by other buyers

a seller knows they can use either live rock transfers or simple bottle bac for the exact same outcome: a reef tank running on day one. Easy as pie

disease management? Skipping that will kill all your stuff and it doesn’t matter how we cycled.

 

[kevgib67]

I took six seconds to search and found this thread for a full stock dry start one day setup, there’s several online

how much fear testing and water changes and overall concern happened here?

Brandon, could you please clarify how you stand on this issue? Ha, I love how straight forward you are, the issue is put to bed. Merry Christmas.

 

[brandon429]

I take the view of updated cycling science: any use of bottle bac and or live rock transfers removes the risk of ammonia control issues and the real issue is fish disease control which isn’t impacted by fast or slow cycling methods.

The sole reason buyers think cycles take a long time are due to the impacts of api testing / .25-.5 ppm ammonia misreads but in reality it’s nearly impossible to find instances where ammonia kills new fish added into a display reef packed in surface area. every search we do to find a failed cycle is living fish doing just fine, and some reading on an api or red sea kit claiming a crash is impending that never comes.

he’s about to pay for quarantined fish, but then spend months adding in unquarantined corals and clean up crews etc, which undoes his initial qt investment. By using controlled start date cycling (knowing when a cycle will be done ahead of time, like sellers do to make the convention on time) a reefer can move confidently into disease planning steps, and that’s not a factor of concern for convention skip cycle setups.