Help with comprehensive brook/ich QT treatment plan for Sailfin

[blackstallion]

I have recently been fighting a bout of brook that wiped out all my fish except one, my Sailfin. The Tang first got Ich and then contracted brook as well.

He no longer had Ich spots on him as far as I could tell when I pulled him out yesterday, but the brook was spreading.

I only have Rid Ich Plus on hand (which is a mixture of 11% formalin and some malachite green) so I dipped him for 35 minutes in a 5mL/g concentration of the Rid Ich Plus. At first he looked pretty rough and stressed when I put him in QT (first picture below) but, he's looking much better today and swimming around and eating (second picture).

What I need help with is identifying a comprehensive plan on treating him going forward. I plan on keeping him out for 76 days to try and rid the DT of the Ich parasite as well.

Questions are:

1) Should I just monitor him for now and not do any other medications unless necessary?
2) WHEN should I consider dipping him again? IF I see the brook coming back? Or proactively dip him again?
3) Should I be mixing MetroPlex/Focus with his food daily (how many days)?
4) Can/should I assume the Rid Ich Plus also killed any Ich parasites when I dipped him in the 5ml/g concentration and that he is now parasite free?
5) Do/should I treat him with Copper Power for Ich once when/if I beat brook?
6) Any other treatments ie. Prazipro, etc.?

I want to make best use of this 2.5 month period he'll be in QT to treat him, so if I missed anything please let me know.

 

[Qasimja]

i would treat him with copper for 30 days along side seachem metroplex every 48 hours for 10-14 days to take care of ich/velvet and brook

 

[blackstallion]

i would treat him with copper for 30 days along side seachem metroplex every 48 hours for 10-14 days to take care of ich/velvet and brook

Do you suggest targeting Metro with the food OR dose right into the tank? And I assume it's safe to treat with Copper Power along with Metro at the same time? When would I start the Metro, beginning of the 30 day window?

 

[Qasimja]

Do you suggest targeting Metro with the food OR dose right into the tank? And I assume it's safe to treat with Copper Power along with Metro at the same time? When would I start the Metro, beginning of the 30 day window?

yea its totally safe to treat it with copper and yea dose it in the water every 48 hours for 10-14 days at the beginning of the 30 day window

 

[blackstallion]

yea its totally safe to treat it with copper and yea dose it in the water every 48 hours for 10-14 days at the beginning of the 30 day window

My understanding is copper is used to treat Ich but cannot treat brook. Should I wait about a week to confirm the brook is gone before I start with copper? Or during the copper treatment, IF the brook were to come back, would I discontinue copper, dip for brook again, and then resume copper?

And is there a reason you suggest dosing the Metro into the tank vs. provided as targeted dose mixed with his food?

 

[Qasimja]

mixing metro with focus and feeding is mostly for internal parasites like worms etc dosing metro directly in the water deals with brook because it attaches to the skin and gills of the fish at least thats how i understand it and doing copper with metro deals with brook and velvet and ich since metro is very mild on the fish it doesnt hurt to start dosing it even without brook present as a preventative measure

 

[blackstallion]

mixing metro with focus and feeding is mostly for internal parasites like worms etc dosing metro directly in the water deals with brook because it attaches to the skin and gills of the fish at least thats how i understand it and doing copper with metro deals with brook and velvet and ich since metro is very mild on the fish it doesnt hurt to start dosing it even without brook present as a preventative measure

Seachem MetroPlex suggests dosing 1-2 measures for every 10g. Would you suggest the higher or lower dosage?

 

[blackstallion]

i would treat him with copper for 30 days along side seachem metroplex every 48 hours for 10-14 days to take care of ich/velvet and brook

What level of copper power would be appropriate, 2.0ppm?

 

[Qasimja]

Seachem MetroPlex suggests dosing 1-2 measures for every 10g. Would you suggest the higher or lower dosage?

sorry i missed this question it wouldn't hurt to do 2 measures every 10g

What level of copper power would be appropriate, 2.0ppm?

and yea with copper power 2.0ppm is fine

 

[blackstallion]

sorry i missed this question it wouldn't hurt to do 2 measures every 10g



and yea with copper power 2.0ppm is fine

Any advantage to dosing SeaChem Kanaplex as well?

 

[blackstallion]

Some updates on the Sailfin. He's eating, swimming and otherwise acting healthy. Please take a look at the pics and see what you think the health of the fish is KNOWING he had brook and was dipped in Rid Ich Plus at a 5ml/g concentration to eliminate parasites.

The first pic shows the area brook was spreading before I pulled him into QT. It's just a dark/purplish mark now but no more skin is coming off.

Second is around his eyes/head. This has me concerned. Is this HLLE/LLE? If so, he's obviously been through a lot of stress lately so that could be the cause. Anything I can do to help avoid spread? I'm treating with Copper Power now for parasites.

And last, an overall shot. Does his lateral line look like it's to prounounced? Not sure if this is part of the LLE? Or it's normal to show this much?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Seachem MetroPlex suggests dosing 1-2 measures for every 10g. Would you suggest the higher or lower dosage?

Just a word of caution - medicated food should be dosed as mg of medication per kg of fish body weight per day. The Metroplex instructions are at best, a wild guess - the actual amount of medication adhering to the food is unknown, the weight of your fish is unknown and the amount of food they eat is unknown. Basically, all the variables are uncontrolled! Since marine fish drink water, dosing the tank water is a better way to administer meds, and it also helps better for external issues.

I'm working on a project (too late to help you now of course) that uses a tool to estimate the weight of the fish. Then, most fish will eat 3% of their body weight per day. Using those controlled variables, you can make up gel diet and actually dose your fish properly.

Jay

 

[blackstallion]

Just a word of caution - medicated food should be dosed as mg of medication per kg of fish body weight per day. The Metroplex instructions are at best, a wild guess - the actual amount of medication adhering to the food is unknown, the weight of your fish is unknown and the amount of food they eat is unknown. Basically, all the variables are uncontrolled! Since marine fish drink water, dosing the tank water is a better way to administer meds, and it also helps better for external issues.

I'm working on a project (too late to help you now of course) that uses a tool to estimate the weight of the fish. Then, most fish will eat 3% of their body weight per day. Using those controlled variables, you can make up gel diet and actually dose your fish properly.

Jay

When he was in the DT, I was "guessing" how to mix MetroPlex/Focus with the dry and frozen food. Since Seachem has no guidance for this case, I just took 1 measure of Metro to 5 measures Focus, mixed with about 1-2ml of tank water, which made the med/focus stick fairly well to the food AND stay on when introduced into the tank. Added some garlic as well to make more attractive to the fish.

In QT, I'm now dosing to the tank directly at about 2 measures/gallon every 48hrs.

 

[KingTideCorals]

Hey there I just posted a video on my QT Setup and regime! Let me know if it helps out!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Some updates on the Sailfin. He's eating, swimming and otherwise acting healthy. Please take a look at the pics and see what you think the health of the fish is KNOWING he had brook and was dipped in Rid Ich Plus at a 5ml/g concentration to eliminate parasites.

The first pic shows the area brook was spreading before I pulled him into QT. It's just a dark/purplish mark now but no more skin is coming off.

Second is around his eyes/head. This has me concerned. Is this HLLE/LLE? If so, he's obviously been through a lot of stress lately so that could be the cause. Anything I can do to help avoid spread? I'm treating with Copper Power now for parasites.

And last, an overall shot. Does his lateral line look like it's to prounounced? Not sure if this is part of the LLE? Or it's normal to show this much?

Yes - that is the start of deep pit HLLE. It will stabilize at some point, but nobody can say where. It could be done now, or it could spread across its flank, or anywhere in between. Through all this, did you use carbon to pull meds out of the water? That's one common reason you see HLLE....

Jay

 

[blackstallion]

Yes - that is the start of deep pit HLLE. It will stabilize at some point, but nobody can say where. It could be done now, or it could spread across its flank, or anywhere in between. Through all this, did you use carbon to pull meds out of the water? That's one common reason you see HLLE....

Jay

I added a Carbon reactor in my DT about 6 weeks ago and was running it 24/7. Before, I just had a bag of carbon in the sump. I only noticed this “pitting” in his head after the Rid Ich treatment couple days ago, so not sure if it caused it or just accelerated what was inevitable.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I added a Carbon reactor in my DT about 6 weeks ago and was running it 24/7. Before, I just had a bag of carbon in the sump. I only noticed this “pitting” in his head after the Rid Ich treatment couple days ago, so not sure if it caused it or just accelerated what was inevitable.

No - carbon in a reactor 6 weeks ago is really the "smoking gun" for this HLLE. Reactors are bad for this, and the 6 week time frame is right about when you'd expect to see it. The rid ich couldn't have caused it that quickly.

Jay

 

[blackstallion]

No - carbon in a reactor 6 weeks ago is really the "smoking gun" for this HLLE. Reactors are bad for this, and the 6 week time frame is right about when you'd expect to see it. The rid ich couldn't have caused it that quickly.

Jay

So is running carbon with Tang's not advisable? What would be the use case for carbon then, only run the reactor half time? Every other week? Only when needed?

Do we know scientifically why carbon is linked to this disease?

 

[blackstallion]

No - carbon in a reactor 6 weeks ago is really the "smoking gun" for this HLLE. Reactors are bad for this, and the 6 week time frame is right about when you'd expect to see it. The rid ich couldn't have caused it that quickly.

Jay

Found a lot of answers to my questions in the below link (with your name and book referenced none the less!)

Regarding activated carbon, I use BRS premium ROX 0.8 packed into a BRS reactor to avoid any tumbling. I do have the flow cranked all the way up on the 500gph pump, so I suppose that can be an issue.

Overall, it seems like the consensus is to only use carbon when needed.

HLLE - Head and Lateral Line Erosion Disease Treatment - Hackers' Reef

HLLE is a disease that afflicts many of the ornamental marine fish in our hobby. The acronym stands for Head and Lateral Line Erosion. Facts & Prevention...

www.hackersreef.com

 

[blackstallion]

This is my first time using the badge. Right now it looks like a solid yellow, BUT, the edges of the circle have a green outline. From the groups experience, does the badge start changing color uniformly OR does it start from the edges OR center?

Right now since I'm dosing copper I can't verify the Ammonia level with a test kit.