Help with planned livestock please 🙂

[handy555]

Hi all,

I'm very new to reef aquariums, I was looking round fish shops for inspiration for a new pet / hobby a couple of months ago and found my local reef shop and was blown away, and by the time I went home that day I'd acquired myself a secondhand Fluval Evo 13.5 from a marketplace seller.

Since then I've done a lot of research, realized a small tank like this isn't the best idea but decided to give it a go anyway. I believe I have everything I need now to start cycling my tank (patience is something I have LOTS of) but I would love some advice on my plan for livestock if anyone has any please.

So far my plan is this:

2-3 Nassarius snails
2-3 Cerith snails
1 Cleaner shrimp
2-3 Sexy shrimp
1 Blue neon goby
1 Pink-streaked wrasse
1 Porcelain anemone crab? (will need rock flower anemone to be happy, add at 6-8+ months when tank established)

Corals:

Mushroom Coral
Green Star Polyps
Sinularia Finger Leather
Kenya Tree
Toadstool Leather
Waving Hand Anthelia
Duncan? (LPS - only once established)

My main questions are:

1. Snails - I spoke to someone at the LFS and they said snails don't really add to bioload so having more isn't an issue, so he'd go for 5 of each - is this correct?

2. Cleaner shrimp - LFS person said these have been over-fishes and are becoming rare, as this is my first tank and there is a high chance my livestock won't do well, should I be picking some other kind of shrimp instead of this? I love how they look, the parasite control is a bonus, so if something else would be recommended instead I'm open to suggestions.

3. Pink-streaked wrasse - I'm getting the impression this might be a bit of an uncommon fish to find available, my main reason for choosing this was it looks like a small sized beginner-ish reef-safe fish that would hopefully occupy a different tank space than the goby and be quite active to add to the visual of the tank (again possible parasite control as an added bonus). I originally wanted a Royal Gramma but I've seen conflicting info about whether the tank will be big enough for it. If the wrasse is uncommon, can anyone suggest an alternative to this please?

4. Generally, does this plan looks realistic and reasonable for the small tank please? Anything that it looks like I've not considered or got glaringly wrong? Also any suggestions for timings for introducing the livestock would be appreciated, that's next on my list of things to work out

Thank you!

 

[mann1139]

Is that wrasse shrimp safe?

Looks like too many shrimp for a 13.

I have run a 12 gallon tank for 15 years with a cleanup crew of 2 astraea, 1 hermit crab, and 1 nassarius snail. Bioload of 2 fish.

 

[handy555]

Is that wrasse shrimp safe?

Looks like too many shrimp for a 13.

I have run a 12 gallon tank for 15 years with a cleanup crew of 2 astraea, 1 hermit crab, and 1 nassarius snail. Bioload of 2 fish.

Thank you, from what I've read, the pink-streaked wrasse is very non-aggressive and should be safe with shrimp, which is one of the reasons I picked it, but obviously that's just from reading so I have no experience to say it's true, hopefully someone on here will know

Have you an idea how many shrimp are likely to be ok in the tank? I find shrimp fascinating so I'm aware that I may be likely to go overboard on them!

What fish do you have in yours if you don't mind me asking?

 

[kevgib67]

Welcome, glad you are here! My only concern is that there won’t be enough food ( algae) for the herbivore snails since you just set up the tank. The nassarius snails will eat leftover food. You’re fine with the shrimp since the sexy shrimp won’t even reach a half inch. In a couple months get a rock flower anemone and it will host the sexy shrimp which is cool to see. Pink stripe wrasse are peaceful and great at clearing the tank of flat worms. Not sure if the pink streak will eat the sexy shrimp my sixline did but those two wrasses have completely different personalities. The cleaner shrimp is safe.

 

[handy555]

Welcome, glad you are here! My only concern is that there won’t be enough food ( algae) for the herbivore snails since you just set up the tank. The nassarius snails will eat leftover food. You’re fine with the shrimp since the sexy shrimp won’t even reach a half inch. In a couple months get a rock flower anemone and it will host the sexy shrimp which is cool to see. Pink stripe wrasse are peaceful and great at clearing the tank of flat worms. Not sure if the pink streak will eat the sexy shrimp my sixline did but those two wrasses have completely different personalities. The cleaner shrimp is safe.

Thank you, that's really helpful the person at the shop suggested a six-line wrasse but I did think I'd read that could be a pain for the shrimp, if I do end up getting one of those instead I'll re-think the sexy shrimp then. Based on what you've said I think I'm better sticking to the lower number on the snails then - my tank is in a shaded corner of the living room but still possibly going to get a fair bit of natural light so I was thinking that might mean the algae needs keeping under control a bit more, hence the herbivores. Am I better to maybe just get one and add more later if and when I find myself needing them?

 

[kevgib67]

Thank you, that's really helpful the person at the shop suggested a six-line wrasse but I did think I'd read that could be a pain for the shrimp, if I do end up getting one of those instead I'll re-think the sexy shrimp then. Based on what you've said I think I'm better sticking to the lower number on the snails then - my tank is in a shaded corner of the living room but still possibly going to get a fair bit of natural light so I was thinking that might mean the algae needs keeping under control a bit more, hence the herbivores. Am I better to maybe just get one and add more later if and when I find myself needing them?

I think the pink streak would be a better fit for your size tank. What type cleaner shrimp are you considering? Blood red cleaner shrimp are beautiful but everyone I have had and have are reclusive and you’ll mostly see them when you put food in the tank. Skunks cleaner shrimp are always out and about and will clean your hands when they are in the tank. I would add a herbivore snail when you first see algae and add more as the need arises.

 

[handy555]

Thank you, that's really helpful the person at the shop suggested a six-line wrasse but I did think I'd read that could be a pain for the shrimp, if I do end up getting one of those instead I'll re-think the sexy shrimp then. Based on what you've said I think I'm better sticking to the lower number on the snails then - my tank is in a shaded corner of the living room but still possibly going to get a fair bit of natural light so I was thinking that might mean the algae needs keeping under control a bit more, hence the herbivores. Am I better to maybe just get one and add more later if and when I find myself needing them?

I think the pink streak would be a better fit for your size tank. What type cleaner shrimp are you considering? Blood red cleaner shrimp are beautiful but everyone I have had and have are reclusive and you’ll mostly see them when you put food in the tank. Skunks cleaner shrimp are always out and about and will clean your hands when they are in the tank. I would add a herbivore snail when you first see algae and add more as the need arises.

It was a skunk cleaner shrimp I was thinking about (LFS said they're just called 'cleaner shrimp' over here in the UK, I think I've missed that there is a blood red one too). Thanks for the advice on the snails, I'll go for that approach then

 

[mh0ward]

A couple things worth mentioning, the cleaner shrimp will likely bother any coral you add and will start to rip food out of their mouths. They’re cool to watch, but I ended up moving mine out of my 21gal lagoon because it kept harassing my duncans and anemone and ripping food out of their mouths. The sexy shrimp are pretty hilarious too, but they can get an appetite for coral, I think particularly zoanthids. Also, in the right conditions, those toadstools can grow fairly fast and get quite large, so you may find that it ends up occupying and shading a large portion of a 13 gal in a relatively short amount of time.

If you’re still not set on fish, take a look at blennys if you haven’t come across them yet. I’ve got a bicolor in my 21gal and have just ordered a tailspot blenny to keep that cleaner shrimp company in a cube They are a “perching” fish with a lot of personality.

Have fun!

 

[handy555]

A couple things worth mentioning, the cleaner shrimp will likely bother any coral you add and will start to rip food out of their mouths. They’re cool to watch, but I ended up moving mine out of my 21gal lagoon because it kept harassing my duncans and anemone and ripping food out of their mouths. The sexy shrimp are pretty hilarious too, but they can get an appetite for coral, I think particularly zoanthids. Also, in the right conditions, those toadstools can grow fairly fast and get quite large, so you may find that it ends up occupying and shading a large portion of a 13 gal in a relatively short amount of time.

If you’re still not set on fish, take a look at blennys if you haven’t come across them yet. I’ve got a bicolor in my 21gal and have just ordered a tailspot blenny to keep that cleaner shrimp company in a cube They are a “perching” fish with a lot of personality.

Have fun!

Thank you, I'll keep an eye on the shrimp then, I don't plan on having any zoas (I'm an over thinker / worrier and having read about palytoxin, no matter how unlikely it is, I'll spend far too much time worrying about poisoning myself / getting an eyeball full / accidentally boiling one and poisoning the house, so I'll get much more stress than enjoyment out of them!).

I'll bear in mind about the toadstools too, from what I can tell most of these beginner corals risk over-running my tank, I suspect I'll be one of those people that can't get anything to grow instead though

I've been wondering if maybe blennies would be a good idea, it's trying to work out which fish are suited to the tank size that is a struggle, do you think a bicolor or a tailspot would be ok in one as small as mine?

 

[mh0ward]

Yes, the tailspot stays a little smaller, but I think either would likely be fine. If you decide to get one, just make sure your rockwork has a smallish hole/cave for it to sleep in. It’ll basically back into the hole so that it feels protected when it sleeps or wants to hide.

An older pic, but you can see the way he likes to back in and lay in his hole to sleep.

 

[kevgib67]

Yes, the tailspot stays a little smaller, but I think either would likely be fine. If you decide to get one, just make sure your rockwork has a smallish hole/cave for it to sleep in. It’ll basically back into the hole so that it feels protected when it sleeps or wants to hide.

An older pic, but you can see the way he likes to back in and lay in his hole to sleep.

I’m a big tailspot blenny fan, some people call me a fanatic but that’s silly. Huge personality in a small fish and how about those eyelashes!

 

[mh0ward]

Haha that’s awesome! The blenny is my favorite thing in the tank for sure

 

[handy555]

Thanks both, I'll have a look at blennies as an option then

 

[kevgib67]

Thanks both, I'll have a look at blennies as an option then

You could do both, tailspots have a minimal bio load and both are peaceful fish.

 

[handy555]

Thanks both, I'll have a look at blennies as an option then

You could do both, tailspots have a minimal bio load and both are peaceful fish.

Good to know, thank you!

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Thank you, I'll keep an eye on the shrimp then, I don't plan on having any zoas (I'm an over thinker / worrier and having read about palytoxin, no matter how unlikely it is, I'll spend far too much time worrying about poisoning myself / getting an eyeball full / accidentally boiling one and poisoning the house, so I'll get much more stress than enjoyment out of them!).

I'll bear in mind about the toadstools too, from what I can tell most of these beginner corals risk over-running my tank, I suspect I'll be one of those people that can't get anything to grow instead though

I've been wondering if maybe blennies would be a good idea, it's trying to work out which fish are suited to the tank size that is a struggle, do you think a bicolor or a tailspot would be ok in one as small as mine?

I'll also vouch for blennies! They are great fish to have in a tank, and will give you little to no issues

 

[Biokabe]

If anything, I think you may be underestimating what you can keep in the tank. That's a good impulse to have and usually the opposite of what we see from newbies. =) The goby is really quite small, and pink-streaked wrasses aren't terribly huge either, so you could definitely work a blenny in there as well. =)

As far as snails go, I personally wouldn't want to rely on cerith snails to keep a tank clean, even a 13 gallon tank. In my experience they're pretty sluggish (snailish...) without voracious appetite. Good to start with, maybe, but as your tank matures I don't think they can keep up. I'd say 2-3 nassarius for detritus cleanup, 1-2 cerith because they're good at getting into nooks and crannies. 3-5 Astrea or Trochus for algae duty, and maybe a Mexican turbo if you end up with heavy forests of algae.

I'd avoid the anthelia/xenia and the Green Star Polyps, just because with a tank of that size it would be very easy for them to colonize every available inch. Kenya trees will also do that, but they're easier to remove. You'll also need to actively trim down the toadstool, as it can easily get large enough to overshadow everything else.

Finally, don't stress so much about zoanthids. The reported cases of palytoxin exposure all involved the reefer in question doing some very stupid things, like literally vaporizing the corals and breathing in the resulting vapors. While you certainly don't -need- zoanthids, they are a great source of color and pop that are tolerant of a wide variety of conditions.

 

[handy555]

If anything, I think you may be underestimating what you can keep in the tank. That's a good impulse to have and usually the opposite of what we see from newbies. =) The goby is really quite small, and pink-streaked wrasses aren't terribly huge either, so you could definitely work a blenny in there as well. =)

As far as snails go, I personally wouldn't want to rely on cerith snails to keep a tank clean, even a 13 gallon tank. In my experience they're pretty sluggish (snailish...) without voracious appetite. Good to start with, maybe, but as your tank matures I don't think they can keep up. I'd say 2-3 nassarius for detritus cleanup, 1-2 cerith because they're good at getting into nooks and crannies. 3-5 Astrea or Trochus for algae duty, and maybe a Mexican turbo if you end up with heavy forests of algae.

I'd avoid the anthelia/xenia and the Green Star Polyps, just because with a tank of that size it would be very easy for them to colonize every available inch. Kenya trees will also do that, but they're easier to remove. You'll also need to actively trim down the toadstool, as it can easily get large enough to overshadow everything else.

Finally, don't stress so much about zoanthids. The reported cases of palytoxin exposure all involved the reefer in question doing some very stupid things, like literally vaporizing the corals and breathing in the resulting vapors. While you certainly don't -need- zoanthids, they are a great source of color and pop that are tolerant of a wide variety of conditions.

Hi, sorry I totally missed this reply, thank you for the advice! I figured as clueless as I currently am that it's better to start with fewer than go more and regret it, it's good to know I should be able to have all three of the fish, and I'll look at the bigger variety of snails then. I do keep reading that about GSP, but it's just sooo pretty but again I will bear it in mind! Same goes for the anthelia, will have to see if sense wins out over impulsiveness

I know I shouldn't stress as much over the zoas but I also know what I'm like and it'll happen regardless, I took up foraging for a while and theres still some stuff in my pantry that I know I'm never gonna eat because even though I know how careful I was when picking and making it, I'm still totally paranoid I may have mixed something deadly in there, zoas will have the same effect on my overactive worry gene. I'm sure once it's set it up I'll find something else to panic about regardless though

 

[mh0ward]

Dont worry so much about the GSP. It basically grows like a carpet that you can peel off if needed. If you keep it on a small island, it'll be easy to make sure it doesn't grow beyond that. The pulsing xenia on the other hand can end up anywhere. I was also like you with regards to zoas, but they added so much color and are easy to grow that I gave them a shot and love them now. I think most of the common zoas don't have the palytoxin that you're worried about, or at most have just a trace amount. Now, Palythoa on the otherhand... i still won't keep for that reason. You should give them a shot!

 

[handy555]

Dont worry so much about the GSP. It basically grows like a carpet that you can peel off if needed. If you keep it on a small island, it'll be easy to make sure it doesn't grow beyond that. The pulsing xenia on the other hand can end up anywhere. I was also like you with regards to zoas, but they added so much color and are easy to grow that I gave them a shot and love them now. I think most of the common zoas don't have the palytoxin that you're worried about, or at most have just a trace amount. Now, Palythoa on the otherhand... i still won't keep for that reason. You should give them a shot!

Thanks