Help with quarantine, please

[PhilM]

Hi,

I have 3 fish in a 65 qal observation tank: a 4" inch copperband butterfly, a coral beauty, and a picture wrasse (both ~ 2.5"). There previously were 5 azure damsels, but I moved them after 3 days as they were looking fine and were interfering with getting the copperband eating. All of the fish were in a Cu quarantine system for at least 2 weeks, the wrasse for 6 weeks. All were looking heathy at the store, but they agree observation followed by QT was best practice. Now after 6 days in observation the copperband has not visibly started eating but is developing spotting on the tail as of this AM. I expect this is from stress. The copper band has pods and a variety of food, including pcmysis shrimp which it was eating at the store and small pellets, frozen foods, live clams, muscles and bristle worms, to choose from and must be eating as it is actively swimming. Here is a picture of the copperband; if you look closely at the tail you can see white spotting. Next is a picture of the 3 fish in the tank.

My questions are: What treatment is appropriate for the copperband? Do I have to treat all 3 fish together or can I just treat the copperband and either move the other 2 into my DT or another isolation tank? If you believe this is bacterial I have enough Prazipro to treat all 3 in the 65 gal if that is the best option. I also have Cu power but am worried about treating the wrasse with this. They only other live in the tank are macro algae. Keeping in mind the eating issues with the copperband, and the spotting what course(s) of action do you suggest?

Thanks in advance, Philip

file:///C:/Users/philm/AppData/Local/Temp/20230725_162949.jpg

 

[wisnia99]

My copperband didnt eat for a week at first and had 2 dots on its fin like yours and than suddenly started eating. I think it learned form other fish. It likes little bigger food pieces. big misis or small krill. the worms have to be in one piece. It didnt want to eat regular small misis

 

[MnFish1]

The blue pictures are hard - and the spots look a 'little' (but not much) large to be Ich - and could suggest lymphocystis - in which case there would be nothing to do except follow your plan.

However - the recommendations here - are to start any new fish in copper and follow by prazipro per protocol. There would be no role for a 2 week observation period.

Hopefully this helps - and that I understood your question

 

[threebuoys]

Alp of these fish can handle copper power when administered as protocol states. You should maintain 2.50 ppm for 30 days followed by 2 rounds of prazi 8 days apart. Prazi by the way is used to treat for flukes, not bacterial infections.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Some of the spots on the CBB are Lymphocystis (that species is very prone to that). No treatment advised for that, it will go away on its own in a month or two, although it may get somewhat worse. The issue is that *some* of the spots may not be Lymphocystis, tough to see clearly....

Jay

 

[PhilM]

Thank you for your replies. I have tried to get a clearer picture of the CBB under whiter lights. Hopefully this will help better identify the white spots and if a true QT is needed for all 3 fish. Not seen in this picture is that there is 1 large white spot on each of the fins behind the left and right gills. There are no spots on the other side of the body; all are on the fins.

Good to know all the fish can handle the copper power. Would I have to remove all sand dishes and macro algae from the tank? Would I build up slower for the wrasse?

The reason for the observation period at the start is all of these fish have been through at least a 2 week Cu QT protocol and supposedly the wrasse went through 4 or 5 weeks of Cu followed by the LFS 2ndary QT. I was hoping to put them into the DT without further QT if nothing showed in the observation period as my normal 10 gal QT is too small for these fish and it is hard to work a QT with the 65 gal.

I will try the krill and larger mysis. The live muscle and clams do disappear but I thought it was the wrasse as nothing happens while I watch.

Hoping for some more clarification with the better picture. Your suggestions are much appreciated. Doing nothing further this evening. many thanks, Philip

 

[MnFish1]

If I were you - I would treat the fish with the normal copper QT and prazipro protocol. as well as any of the other fish that were with the copper band. Though - it looks like there is some lymphocystis - thanks for the pictures!!!!!!

 

[threebuoys]

Thank you for your replies. I have tried to get a clearer picture of the CBB under whiter lights.

will help better identify the white spots and if a true QT is needed for all 3 fish. Not seen in this picture is that there is 1 large white spot on each of the fins behind the left and right gills. There are no spots on the other side of the body; all are on the fins.

Good to know all the fish can handle the copper power. Would I have to remove all sand dishes and macro algae from the tank? Would I build up slower for the wrasse?

The reason for the observation period at the start is all of these fish have been through at least a 2 week Cu QT protocol and supposedly the wrasse went through 4 or 5 weeks of Cu followed by the LFS 2ndary QT. I was hoping to put them into the DT without further QT if nothing showed in the observation period as my normal 10 gal QT is too small for these fish and it is hard to work a QT with the 65 gal.

I will try the krill and larger mysis. The live muscle and clams do disappear but I thought it was the wrasse as nothing happens while I watch.

Hoping for some more clarification with the better picture. Your suggestions are much appreciated. Doing nothing further this evening. many thanks, Philip

No need to move slowly due to the wrasse. Also, I would keep a dish of sand for the wrasse as long as the sand is not calcium based. Calcium will absorb copper, and maintaining the correct concentration will be difficult.

 

[PhilM]

CBB doing well and eating frozen micysis shrimp now. Big spots receding; no small spots visible. Coral Beauty doing well. The picture wrasse, which appeared healthy, did not make it. My success rate with wrasses in Cu is now less than 50%; 2 out of 5. My LFS also has a very poor rate with wrasse shipping and then into Cu. Is there an alternate treatment for wrasses?

 

[threebuoys]

CBB doing well and eating frozen micysis shrimp now. Big spots receding; no small spots visible. Coral Beauty doing well. The picture wrasse, which appeared healthy, did not make it. My success rate with wrasses in Cu is now less than 50%; 2 out of 5. My LFS also has a very poor rate with wrasse shipping and then into Cu. Is there an alternate treatment for wrasses?

Sorry to hear you are still having issues with wrasse. Honestly, copper should not be a problem. I've successfully QT'd several with copper. Did the wrasse eat aggressively during QT? Was he active or lethargic?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

CBB doing well and eating frozen micysis shrimp now. Big spots receding; no small spots visible. Coral Beauty doing well. The picture wrasse, which appeared healthy, did not make it. My success rate with wrasses in Cu is now less than 50%; 2 out of 5. My LFS also has a very poor rate with wrasse shipping and then into Cu. Is there an alternate treatment for wrasses?

Not sure what happened to the wrasse, but they are really only sensitive to ionic copper, not chelated amine-bound copper like this. Reading the first post here though - you said they were in a two week copper treatment? That sounds like the time frame for an ionic copper treatment, so that could have been an issue.

Hyposalinity is an alternative, but some fish find that stressful. Tank Transfer method works pretty well for ich, but not so much for other diseases.

Jay

 

[PhilM]

Thanks for your replies.

The wrasse was coming for food immediately when it hit the water before the quarantine and when it was out quite active. I have a container of none calcareous sand in the QT that he spent quite a bit of time in. During the quarantine he became less active and ate less. On the morning of day 6 I found him dead on the bottom of the tank.

Jay commented on the different types of QT the supplier might have used. Now that I know the type of Cu protocol is important I will have to ask what both the supplier and LFS are using for Cu quarantine protocol as I do not know.