Help with UV plumbing please

[Steve1500]

I was watching the BRS video on UV setup and I made the amateur mistake of running my UV plumbing from the sump back to the sump. I have a dedicated pump for my UV and of course for my return. In the attached pic, the red text and lines show the current setup (rtn pump taking water from section in sump and returning to the same section, yea now I know). The yellow line represents what i would like to do which is take the UV water and hook it up to the tank return lines via a T coupler. I am hoping this will give me close to a closed UV system. Water will go from the sump to the UV and then to the return lines and into the tank on the other side of the wall. Essentially, i will have two pumps running on one system...a UV pump and a return pump.

If I do this, will it mess up my return system flow? I plan on using a ck valve prior to the UV water entering the return lines. Any advice would be appreciated.

Apologies for the hard to read handwriting on the pic...best i could do.

Steve

 

[Badilac]

I don't not see any issues with your proposed drawing. I run two different pumps on my 2 returns. One pump feeds the UV then returns to the tank. The second pump feed a chiller and my fuge then returns to the tank. I had to adjust the flow on my pump feeding the chiller and fuge slightly. I also had to open my gate valve on my main drain line to compensate for the increased flow from my sump to tank. do you have the ability to open your drain more? do you have the ability to decrease one pump if needed?

 

[Jaebster]

Am I understanding correctly?... you want the UV on a separate pump apart from your return, then the outlet of the UV will be T'd to the return line that's on a main return to DT? If so, any reason for doing this? If I were you, i would just plumb the main return pump to feed the UV and then plumb it on to the main DT. Plan ahead for valves and unions so that you can remove the UV for maintenance.

 

[Steve1500]

Yes I can open the drain more and I can increase or decrease each pump

 

[Badilac]

Yes I can open the drain more and I can increase or decrease each pump

Jaebster has a good point maybe I misunderstood? Are you running 1 pump per return or two pumps on 1 return? Will it be like my setup that I described above? if it will be like mine then you will be fine since you have room to make adjustments on the pumps and drains. However I do NOT recommend two pumps T'ed together feeding 1 return nozzle.

 

[Steve1500]

Am I understanding correctly?... you want the UV on a separate pump apart from your return, then the outlet of the UV will be T'd to the return line that's on a main return to DT? If so, any reason for doing this? If I were you, i would just plumb the main return pump to feed the UV and then plumb it on to the main DT. Plan ahead for valves and unions so that you can remove the UV for maintenance.

Main reason is to have a redundant system with two pumps. I will as looking at your idea and it’s very doable. Thanks!

 

[Steve1500]

Jaebster has a good point maybe I misunderstood? Are you running 1 pump per return or two pumps on 1 return? Will it be like my setup that I described about? if it will be like mine then you will be fine since you have room to make adjustments on the pumps and drains. However I do NOT recommend two pumps T'ed together feeding 1 return nozzle.

Yes it will be two pumps tied together feeding one (actually two) return nozzles. I only have one return. I’m guessing the only way to run two pumps is if I have two returns?

 

[Jaebster]

Yes it will be two pumps tied together feeding one (actually two) return nozzles. I only have one return. I’m guessing the only way to run two pumps is if I have two returns?

Yes. If you had 2 returns, the returns would be independent of each other running off 2 separate pumps. Some people use 1 pump and split the plumbing to feed 2 separate lines... but I disgress.

Can you let us know the reason why you would have 2 pumps (1 feeding UV and 1 feeding main return line and merging the 2 pumps together? Is it a GPH flow issue (UV vs DT?) that you're trying to achieve? Just trying to understand the logic.
Also keep in mind the the UV needs specific GPH to be efficient and effective. If you're trying to target bacteria and algae, your GPH must be high and your overflow may not be able to handle the GPH of the UV. If you have fast turnover going through your sump then the way you currently have the UV set-up would be the most efficient and effective way of utilizing the UV without drilling holes in your tank for a true closed loop UV set-up. If turnover in your sump is slow, then your current set-up also does not work.

Lol... thought I would need to put this disclaimer... I'm not an expert in aquarium plumbing not usage of UV sterilizers. But conceptually and logic has given me my reasons for my response. Lol.

 

[Steve1500]

Man, I'm glad I asked before buying and ripping things apart!

My main concern was having the UV water go from sump back to sump. BRS said that was a no-no unless you set it up a certain way. They did not specify what a certain way is.

I wanted to have two pumps running because I was not sure one pump could handle it all. I use a Varios 8 (up to ~2000 GPH) on the UV and return system. Not sure that is a player anymore.

Based on what you said above, it makes sense that I may be ok with the current setup so long as my UV flow is high enough.

Couple of last questions (I hope).

What is a high enough turnover.... I estimate i have about 1500 GPH running in my UV system. Enough?
The UV water is entering into the pump in one chamber of the sump (section before fuge) and returning in the EXACT same chamber....am i just treating the same water over and over? I can move the UV return line to the next chamber (huge) but it seems to mess with my sump water levels.

Thanks for your and Badilac's help!

 

[Jaebster]

The GPH needed for the UV depends on the UV manufacturer and Model, AND what you are "targeting" to kill... Algaes and bacteria OR Protozoans (and Ich). The former needs high GPH and latter needs lower GPH. The manufacturer should have a website for this.

That being said, if your sump has a High rate of turnover, and you're trying to kill protozoan (and Ich) then having the UV sterilizer Pump taking water from the 1st or 2nd chamber, and UV'ed water exiting into return chamber(last chamber) or 2nd to last chamber should work and your water levels wont be affected. I say "should work" because I dont know the flow requirements of you UV and I dont know the actual flow of your DT. As long as the flow going through your UV is much lower than you actual flow through your overflow, then it will work.

However, for algaes and bacteria that need high flow through UV, your actual overflow GPH may not even be enough to match the UV sterilizer GPH flow requirement. Then taking water for 1 sump chamber and feeding it back to the same chamber will be the most effective and efficient method with you current setup.

The only way to make the UV be the most effective and efficient is to take water from your DT in to your UV and pump it back in to your DT (closed loop). BRS specified way is closed loop. They do mention it in a couple of their UV videos.

I too am contemplating how to plumb my UV. At first, I wanted to target protozoans and Ich, etc. But want the flexibility to utilize it for algaes and bacteria if the need arises. So my initial setup was to set up like I explained above for the protozoans and Ich. Since then, I'm going to add addition plumbing with a valve so that I can choose which chamber the UV'ed water would return to based on my needs. I want to avoid drilling my tank as much as possible.

Hope this helps.

Others may have different opinions but this is what I see as a practical method.

 

[Dragon52]

When I run my UV I set it up to pull from the skimmer section of my sump & return it to the section that I pump back to the tank. Since the level in the return section is actually lower then the Skimmer & Refugium section I feel like I'm ok with the BRS statement. Don't know if this is how they think it would be ok.

 

[Badilac]

I personally have noticed a difference in my algae since redoing my set up to return directly to my DT. Before that I was pulling from the sump and returning into the sump. But this all has to do with the size of the sump and turn over rate as explained above by jaebster. I’m certainly not saying it won’t work but I do not think it will be most efficient this way. It’s got to be better than pulling from the return section and returning to the first section as that has to be the worst option.

 

[undermind]

I personally have noticed a difference in my algae since redoing my set up to return directly to my DT. Before that I was pulling from the sump and returning into the sump. But this all has to do with the size of the sump and turn over rate as explained above by jaebster. I’m certainly not saying it won’t work but I do not think it will be most efficient this way. It’s got to be better than pulling from the return section and returning to the first section as that has to be the worst option.

Hey Badilac, I'm just curious why you say it would have to be worse to pull from the return section and send to the first section (see the bold text from your quote above). I'm not questioning it, I just want to better understand any strategies behind running from one sump section to another with UV intake and output.

I'm contemplating how to install a UV into my system. My goal is to go in and out of the return line between the return pump and the DT but I'm worried about controlling flow to the UV. I figured I'd find a ton of examples (diagrams) on the web of how other people have done this but I strangely haven't.

 

[Badilac]

Hey Badilac, I'm just curious why you say it would have to be worse to pull from the return section and send to the first section (see the bold text from your quote above). I'm not questioning it, I just want to better understand any strategies behind running from one sump section to another with UV intake and output.

I'm contemplating how to install a UV into my system. My goal is to go in and out of the return line between the return pump and the DT but I'm worried about controlling flow to the UV. I figured I'd find a ton of examples (diagrams) on the web of how other people have done this but I strangely haven't.

Because you will constantly be retreating the same water. If you pull from the last section and return to the first section that water will just come back to the last section again. it will be an endless cycle of retreating the same water.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Why exactly is a uv going from sump back to sump bad your still sterilizing new water as the water is your sump is constantly changing and I just run an over power if light in tje equitment area of the tank where the return pump is no pluming needed and keeps water and equitment clean

 

[undermind]

Because you will constantly be retreating the same water. If you pull from the last section and return to the first section that water will just come back to the last section again. it will be an endless cycle of retreating the same water.

Thanks for the reply. I think the bummer of this situation is that you're also bypassing all of the things in your sump that you've actually placed there for a specific purpose (skimmer, fuge, reactors, etc.).

My initial thinking on it led me to the issue you mention (retreating the same water) but technically, you wouldn't be retreating anything close to all the water. If you're running a protozoa flow rate for example, it seems that you'd be sending 25% of the water back to the beginning. This of course is a rough estimate based on the lower protozoan rate and is impacted by main return pump flow rate, UV size, etc.

So with one method, there's the negative of recirculating a portion of your water back through the UV, and there's the negative of bypassing your sump equipment with the other.

 

[Tankkeepers]

I would disagree that you are retreating the same water while a perce tage of it is being retreated there Is constainly new water coming into the sump thus diluting the water you have treated while I can see this decressing effecincy (or possible incressing effecincy becouse of the higher contact time)yes saying its just treating the same water over and over again would be incorrect

 

[Tankkeepers]

Any other reason then that its soposed to be a no no? Otherwise I really dont see the problem here as stated you will be retreating some but not all otherwise you'd have no water leaving the display and returning to the display