High Nitrate and Phosphate

[jjbunn]

Here are some measurements from my 60 gallon tank. This is about two months old, has about 50 lbs of live rock, a bubble tip anemone, green star polyps, some zoas, 2 Chromis, 2 Percula clowns, 1 Yellow Tang. There are also many porcelain crabs, a couple of sea squirts, a red sponge, and various other critters - all inhabitants appear to be healthy. Water is distilled. Salt mix is Instant Ocean

I started dripping Kalkwasser about 10 days ago - around 1 gallon so far.

The Phosphate and Nitrate levels are way high ... should I be concerned?

• T = 82F
• pH = 8.5
• SG = 1.025
• Ammonia < 0.02 ppm
• Calcium = 360 mg/l
• KH/Alkalinity = 8 dKH
• Phosphate = 0.25 ppm
• Nitrate = 100 ppm

Thanks!

 

[MikeyAl]

Are you sure about nitrates. How are you checking?

When was your last water change and how much?

 

[jjbunn]

Are you sure about nitrates. How are you checking?

When was your last water change and how much?

I only have the one test for nitrates - I'll re-test tomorrow to see if there is any change. Do you think the test may be faulty?

No water changes - just replace water lost to evaporation - that's what I've always done for my tanks.

 

[_Conway]

IMO most of your parameters are off.
SG. Is OK.

 

[jjbunn]

IMO most of your parameters are off.
SG. Is OK.

Sorry, I don't understand?

 

[MikeyAl]

Your pH is a bit high. Shoot for 8.1-8.3. Ammonia needs to be less than .1. Phos less than .03.

Yes. You need to be doing water changes. I do 10% weekly. Make sure you are also cleaning your filter sock and skimmer regularly along with your sump.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would just focus on nitrate and phosphate reduction. There are many good methods, including growing macroalgae, ATS, dosing organic carbon, phosphate binders Iike GFO or aluminum oxide, denitrators, etc.

 

[MikeyAl]

I would just focus on nitrate and phosphate reduction. There are many good methods, including growing macroalgae, ATS, dosing organic carbon, phosphate binders
Ike GFO or aluminum oxide, denitrators, etc.

I've used all the above successfully.
I do believe that regular water changes and cleaning of filters and skimmers is a must. Just my opinion.

 

[jjbunn]

I would just focus on nitrate and phosphate reduction. There are many good methods, including growing macroalgae, ATS, dosing organic carbon, phosphate binders Iike GFO or aluminum oxide, denitrators, etc.

Thanks, Randy. I'll investigate those methods . The vodka method of carbon dosing sounds interesting ...

MikeyAl: I've never done water changes, since I started in early 90s, so I'm reluctant to start now. I should have mentioned the skimmer - a Reef Octopus 90, regularly cleaned. No filter at all and no sump.

 

[MikeyAl]

Thanks, Randy. I'll investigate those methods . The vodka method of carbon dosing sounds interesting ...

MikeyAl: I've never done water changes, since I started in early 90s, so I'm reluctant to start now. I should have mentioned the skimmer - a Reef Octopus 90, regularly cleaned. No filter at all and no sump.

Gotcha. Good luck.

 

[mcarroll]

This is about two months old

Nitrate = 100 ppm

I'm confused - is this the first test for Nitrates you have done?

From the age of the tank, I think that could only be (or mostly) the product of your tank curing and cycling...but if you were testing, that shouldn't have been a surprise.

Did the nitrates accumulate AFTER the tank cycled?

That's also quite a bit of fish in numbers, personality, and adult length for a two-month old tank of that size....probably the reason for the ammonia. Seems you have rushed things a bit and the tank was not ready.

• Can you handle the ammonia problem (ideally this means testing + water changes daily; could mean an ammonia blocker) or do you have another tank to move the fish to while the cycle finishes? The ammonia is literally shortening their lives while they are in there breathing it.

I started dripping Kalkwasser about 10 days ago - around 1 gallon so far.

Why are you dripping kalkwasser as of a few days ago? Doesn't seem like there was anything in the tank that should require it.

Ammonia is also more toxic at higher pH....

MikeyAl: I've never done water changes, since I started in early 90s, so I'm reluctant to start now.

I'm not sure I understand this position....

This tank has 100 ppm Nitrates as well as ammonia.

I'd forget the no-waterchange strategy until the tank's numbers are more in your favor.

Focus on your basics - including water changes, unless there's some good reason to avoid them - to get this tank going in the right direction.

 

[MikeyAl]

I'm confused - is this the first test for Nitrates you have done?

From the age of the tank, I think that could only be (or mostly) the product of your tank curing and cycling...but if you were testing, that shouldn't have been a surprise.

Did the nitrates accumulate AFTER the tank cycled?

That's also quite a bit of fish in numbers, personality, and adult length for a two-month old tank of that size....probably the reason for the ammonia. Seems you have rushed things a bit and the tank was not ready.

• Can you handle the ammonia problem (ideally this means testing + water changes daily; could mean an ammonia blocker) or do you have another tank to move the fish to while the cycle finishes? The ammonia is literally shortening their lives while they are in there breathing it.

Why are you dripping kalkwasser as of a few days ago? Doesn't seem like there was anything in the tank that should require it.

Ammonia is also more toxic at higher pH....



I'm not sure I understand this position....

This tank has 100 ppm Nitrates as well as ammonia.

I'd forget the no-waterchange strategy until the tank's numbers are more in your favor.

Focus on your basics - including water changes, unless there's some good reason to avoid them - to get this tank going in the right direction.

I didn't want to push. But well said. Agree with all the above.

 

[mcarroll]

The tank is full of livestock at two months old so a push is called for. (I know @jjbunn recognizes this or the thread wouldn't be here.)

 

[sNaFu]

I AM VERY NEW TO THIS HOBBY SO THIS IS MORE INQUISITION THAN ACUSATION, WITH EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE READ HERE AND ELSEWHERE ISNT LIKELY THAT HE HAS TO MUCH LIVESTOCK INTO A TANK THAT HASNT FULLY CYCLED YET?

 

[sNaFu]

The tank is full of livestock at two months old so a push is called for. (I know @jjbunn recognizes this or the thread wouldn't be here.)

SRY MCARROLL, YOUR POST WASNT THERE WHEN I STARTED MINE, DIDNT MEAN TO DUPLICATE

 

[_Conway]

I AM VERY NEW TO THIS HOBBY SO THIS IS MORE INQUISITION THAN ACUSATION, WITH EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE READ HERE AND ELSEWHERE ISNT LIKELY THAT HE HAS TO MUCH LIVESTOCK INTO A TANK THAT HASNT FULLY CYCLED YET?

Yeah your right.
And he don't believe in water changes.

 

[mcarroll]

All good...we're not trying to "pile on"!

 

[jjbunn]

Well, thanks for the feedback guys

To be clear, if you look at my measurements again, you will see there is no measurable Ammonia. At the outset I used 50lbs of (extremely fresh!) live rock from TambaBaySaltwater and have observed no Ammonia since it or the fish were added a while back now - my position is that there has been no cycle, due to the liveness of the rock (the stuff is fantastic). Indeed, all inhabitants of the tank appear healthy. I'm adding Kalkwasser to promote the growth of the coralline algae in the tank - in particular I want it to coat a few pieces of dead rock I have in there. I do also intend to add some hard coral at some point in the future.

I bought the test kit to get a handle on the Calcium and Carbonate Hardness while I was dosing - the Nitrate and Phosphate tests I did for fun, and was surprised at the numbers - hence this thread

I'll update with new numbers when I repeat the tests.

 

[mcarroll]

No cure/cycle...?

So the 100 ppm Nitrates came from...?

Let us know about your retest.

Above 20 ppm is known to start causing problems with marine critters.

 

[MikeyAl]

Nobody is trying to pile on or give you a hard time. These forums are meant to be helpful. As Randy said, focus on the phos and nitrates. I highly recommend running GFO. (Or one of the other methods- they are all effective). And although you are not big on water changes, with 100ppm nitrate, at least this once, I would recommend you think about a pretty big one to get under control.

Just trying to help.