High phosphates assistance

[LeonardTheWrasse]

Hi, I'm struggling with high phosphate over the last couple months. My tank is only about 9 months old and is currently going through the (hopefully) tail end of its ugly phase. My Hanna ULR phosphate tester keeps coming up with the reading 0.9ppm, it could be a calibration issue, but I don't know.
I've been having trouble with keeping nitrate above zero as well.

I used partially live and mostly dry rock when setting the tank up. I feed very lightly once to twice a day with 4 fish. I use RODI water with 0 TDS, water change 10% a week, I upped the water changes recently to about 25%, but had no effects on the phosphate, and my corals were unhappier.

Other parameters
Nitrate - 0ppm - 5ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm
Alk - 11dKH
pH - 8.2
Calcium - 410ppm
Magnesium - 1400ppm

I don't have any other test kits, but everything else is on point it seems? My corals are doing pretty well, not growing a huge amount, but thriving nonetheless.
I'd really appreciate any help figuring out either the cause (I personally think the dry rock could be leaching it), or a good way to reduce the phosphate levels.
Thanks

 

[Slocke]

Phosphates can absorb into rocks and it means you get stuck with a high phosphate level for a while. I had the same at 0.7. Here is how I attacked and eventually solved it:

• GFO: slow and steady but needs tumbling.
• Nitrate+carbon dosing: mixing the two should cause phosphates to go down but will take some trial and error and a lot of testing
• Lanthanum chloride: I didn’t use this as it is the nuclear option as it can be deadly to fish if used wrong but will fix your phosphates

 

[Debramb]

Hi, I'm struggling with high phosphate over the last couple months. My tank is only about 9 months old and is currently going through the (hopefully) tail end of its ugly phase. My Hanna ULR phosphate tester keeps coming up with the reading 0.9ppm, it could be a calibration issue, but I don't know.
I've been having trouble with keeping nitrate above zero as well.

I used partially live and mostly dry rock when setting the tank up. I feed very lightly once to twice a day with 4 fish. I use RODI water with 0 TDS, water change 10% a week, I upped the water changes recently to about 25%, but had no effects on the phosphate, and my corals were unhappier.

Other parameters
Nitrate - 0ppm - 5ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm
Alk - 11dKH
pH - 8.2
Calcium - 410ppm
Magnesium - 1400ppm

I don't have any other test kits, but everything else is on point it seems? My corals are doing pretty well, not growing a huge amount, but thriving nonetheless.
I'd really appreciate any help figuring out either the cause (I personally think the dry rock could be leaching it), or a good way to reduce the phosphate levels.
Thanks

Corals above my pay grade can you add a phosphate remover pad to your sump?
Others will have more info, good luck, you’re herding
Debra

 

[Reefahholic]

I’d use bacteria to start bringing it down, and at the same time you need to dose nitrogen to get it up so that the tank can balance out and start to consume the PO4 better. NO3 should always be higher than PO4. Right now you have an inverted ratio that usually leads to some funky issues.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Have you watched any youtube videos on how to do the hanna phosphate test? I would be curious if I got .9 every time, seems like error to me.

 

[Kmst80]

How do you think your phosphates got so high? Bit odd you have no nitrates but high phosphates.
Do you mix your own Saltwater? What do you feed your fish and how much. How big is the tank? What fish?
As mentioned before phosphate get stored in rock so once high it leeches back into the water.
I use Aquaforest Phosphate minus, its like gfo, i have it in an aqua medic multi reactor s and it keeps my phosphate in check when needed.
You want to find the source of your phosphates though or you fight a loosing battle.
Keep those nitrates above 0 too, i use Calcium nitrate for that(i got mine from Liverpool Creek Aquariums)

 

[tzabor10]

BRS GFO Reactordoes a lot for me. HOB Refugium can help with phosphates and give copepods a good place to live.

 

[LeonardTheWrasse]

Thanks

@Kmst80 , I do mix my own saltwater, I use Aquaforest sea salt.
I feed my fish a mixture of frozen mysis and brine shrimp, mainly mysis. I feed a quarter of one cube of mysis spread out over the day.
The tank is a waterbox 100.3, 70 gallon display, 100 gallons total.
2 juvenile Ocellaris clownfish, a yellow assessor and a pink streaked wrasse.

@Mr. Mojo Rising , I thought that it was either user error, or there was a problem with the test, but it came up to 0.9 each of the 3 times I tested. I'm going to my LFS today, so I'll get them to test for me, in case my results are faulty.

@Reefahholic , This is a dumb question because I'm over tired, but what sort of bacteria do you mean? Do you mean a cycling bacteria such as Dr Tim's One and Only?

@Slocke , How long did it take for you to get the phosphate down to a manageable level?

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into all of them.

 

[Slocke]

@Slocke , How long did it take for you to get the phosphate down to a manageable level?

It took months but thats partially because many of my early methods didn't work. It got quite depressing as the phosphate levels refused to budge.

Thats why I suggest what finally did work which is the carbon dosing and nitrogen combo with some help from GFO.

 

[jda]

You are going to need media or chemicals to bring it down. Macro algae works OK too, but often this is more to keep up instead of reduce. The amount of po4 needed for bacteria to grow is usually not enough to lower the amount too much.

GFO or Lanthanum Chloride will do the trick. Each has some nuance but both can be safe if you do them right and go slow. LC will be cheaper. Either will need to be done just about every day.

All of this said, are you sure that you want to lower the level? .90 is a lot and I would lower it but many people have some corals that could not care that the level is this high... some corals will care.

 

[LeonardTheWrasse]

You are going to need media or chemicals to bring it down. Macro algae works OK too, but often this is more to keep up instead of reduce. The amount of po4 needed for bacteria to grow is usually not enough to lower the amount too much.

GFO or Lanthanum Chloride will do the trick. Each has some nuance but both can be safe if you do them right and go slow. LC will be cheaper. Either will need to be done just about every day.

All of this said, are you sure that you want to lower the level? .90 is a lot and I would lower it but many people have some corals that could not care that the level is this high... some corals will care.

Thanks, I think I'll set up one of those.
I do want to lower the level, because I don't want it to become unmanageable in the future. My plan is a soft coral tank, so while most of them don't mind higher phosphates, I would rather have it at a 'good' level than reduce my options later on if I chose to branch out into other types of coral.

 

[Pistondog]

0.9ppm is the max for the hanna ulr, so your levels are surely higher. You could dilute your tank water 5:1 with new salt water, then multiply hanna reading by 5.
Lanthanum chloride is a good tool when used correctly.
My 2$
Post in thread 'DIY Lanthanum Dosing' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-lanthanum-dosing.969669/post-11125489

 

[jda]

Without corals you can be pretty aggressive with the LC dose. However, there are talented and smart hobbyists that have had issue with with their fish when dosing into the tank - others have not. I would take caution and use the filter socks.

Once you get corals, you want to be really cautious about how quickly that you lower po4. It is easier just not to let it rise.

po4 binds to sand and rocks in large quantity. You could lower the tank level by half and in a few days, the po4 in the water could be nearly back where it was before. This is just the way that it is.

SeaKlear is a swimming pool LC product that is less expensive than reef stuff - this is what I use when I remove po4 from live rock. Save some money and get this stuff. I pour a bit into a dropper bottle and then shake and dose by the drop when needed. You can water it down too.

Once you dose for a while and test, you will get the hang of it.

 

[LeonardTheWrasse]

Does having elevated phosphates harm fish in any way? Would it be unwise to add any others until I have the phosphate levels under control?

 

[Garf]

Does having elevated phosphates harm fish in any way? Would it be unwise to add any others until I have the phosphate levels under control?

Adding another fish would add to more feeding which would increase phosphate further. That being said, my recent tank has been up to 1.4ppm without obvious concern. My previous tank was definitely over 1ppm for a considerable time (I expect 7 years +), again, no ill effects. I’m using sand, regenerated with lanthanum now to maintain a little lower phosphates, because it makes me feel like I’m making an effort.

 

[Kmst80]

I don't think another fish will be a problem, i don't even think your quarter cube of frozen is going to bring phosphates up higher if you are still doing weekly waterchanges.
My phosphates were up to 1.25 ppm and all my corals and fish were fine, i actually found a video about a guy talking about high phosphates and that his tank is running in the 2.5 ppm and higher with no ill effect.
If you start using gfo take it easy and don't drive it down to 0, thats when the dinos will knock on the door.

 

[jda]

There is likely a level of po4 that can harm fish, since they are living in a waste product. 1.0 does not appear to be that level for most, but I would be wary of keeping sensitive fish at that level.