HLLE redsea sailfin tang help/advice please

[lucasmaximas]

I purchased an Indian Ocean sailfin tang online around 2 weeks ago, I didn’t recognise what it was to start with but it appears to be showing early symptoms of hlle. It’s not got any worse since being in my tank (if anything it’s slightly better).

I currently use Seachem matrix carbon and feed tmc gamma frozen brine shrimp quintet along with offering ocean nutrition green seaweed

Would you recommend any other seaweed/supplicants available in the UK to help with recovery?

Would you recommend stopping using matrix carbon and use a non carbon media such as Seachem renew instead?

Any other suggestions would be very much appreciated!

These are pictures from today;

I didn’t have a picture from the day of arrival but have a short video (taken in the dark) the evening of acclimation day.

It’s such a beautiful fish, I just want to do what I can to help it recover so any advice would be most appreciated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I purchased an Indian Ocean sailfin tang online around 2 weeks ago, I didn’t recognise what it was to start with but it appears to be showing early symptoms of hlle. It’s not got any worse since being in my tank (if anything it’s slightly better).

I currently use Seachem matrix carbon and feed tmc gamma frozen brine shrimp quintet along with offering ocean nutrition green seaweed

Would you recommend any other seaweed/supplicants available in the UK to help with recovery?

Would you recommend stopping using matrix carbon and use a non carbon media such as Seachem renew instead?

Any other suggestions would be very much appreciated!

These are pictures from today;

I didn’t have a picture from the day of arrival but have a short video (taken in the dark) the evening of acclimation day.

It’s such a beautiful fish, I just want to do what I can to help it recover so any advice would be most appreciated.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I see some minor HLLE. I would stop using carbon except well rinsed pelleted carbon. Here is a synopsis of my HLLE research:

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[lion king]

Add live macro algae to their diet; ulva, gracillaria, and caulerpa. What you may have available and what they will eat. Nothing beats live and I've witnessed it reversing hlle 1st hand. Providing fresh human grade seafood is also a nutritional bonus. You can buy it fresh and freeze in small batches. You can keep the macro in your sump with a refuge light and clip some in the display daily. Tangs are herbivores and many time hlle starts with a deficiency in proper viable green nutrition.

 

[littlefoxx]

I add vitachem, selcon, garlic and different frozen algae/herbivore and let them soak in the above and then feed it to my tangs. Ive got two HLLE rescue fish. And second taking carbon out if youve got a tang, lots of research pointing to that being a potential cause. He is a beautiful fish, with or without HLLE

 

[dandi]

What is your salinity level?

 

[lucasmaximas]

What is your salinity level?

1.025, narrates were a little high at 10ppm though

 

[dandi]

OK that's not it. Have you checked for stray current?

 

[lucasmaximas]

OK that's not it. Have you checked for stray current?

No I have not, although from what I’ve read I’m not sure I buy Into he stray current being the cause of hlle.

The fish actaully arrived with the hlle (I just didn’t recognise what it was straight away) I’ve had it for 2 weeks and I think it looks like it’s improved slightly since I noticed the morning after acclimation. (Fish was an internet purchase)

 

[dandi]

I can only comment on personal experience. As a former wholesaler I have imported literally tens of thousand of tangs over the years. Inventory turned over very quickly therefore we did not normally see HLLE develop. Each of our holding systems had grounding probes as a precaution. Dealing with many retailers we received feedback and at times retailers would experience HLLE. The three questions I would ask is what are your system parameters, have you checked for stray current and what are you feeding and dosing. There were numerous instances where parameters were all acceptable and nutrient additions seemed adequate. It ended up to be a stray current issue. Other instances were encountered were related to retailer running hypo salinity. Hope that explains it. Dont fret too much because in a stable reef your fish will slowly improve. Best of luck and happy reefing

 

[Jay Hemdal]

No I have not, although from what I’ve read I’m not sure I buy Into he stray current being the cause of hlle.

The fish actaully arrived with the hlle (I just didn’t recognise what it was straight away) I’ve had it for 2 weeks and I think it looks like it’s improved slightly since I noticed the morning after acclimation. (Fish was an internet purchase)

Stray voltage does not cause HLLE. The dietary link is also not proven.

Jay

 

[dandi]

As stated my assessment is based upon feedback there is a correlation. There is no claim to definitely stating current is the culprit. I don't think any of you debating the need to avoid stray current. $20 grounding probe resolves the potential. When we encountered imported fish that showed HLLE albeit very infrequently we place the fish into one of the coral systems and the vast majority improved becoming fat and healthy. Happy reefing

 

[Jay Hemdal]

As stated my assessment is based upon feedback there is a correlation. There is no claim to definitely stating current is the culprit. I don't think any of you debating the need to avoid stray current. $20 grounding probe resolves the potential. When we encountered imported fish that showed HLLE albeit very infrequently we place the fish into one of the coral systems and the vast majority improved becoming fat and healthy. Happy reefing

I ruled that out in my study. There is no causation between HLLE and induced (stray) voltage. Is there a correlation? Again, it has not been shown. There are only three controlled studies on HLLE. Two proved carbon causation and one showed a correlation to heavy metals in well water (but that was for a related syndrome, called epithelial thinning). One unpublished study back in the 1980s showed a vitamin C deficiency as a cause. However, that was flawed because the fish were moved from one tank to another. Another study was undertaken about 15 years ago looking at diet, but they used carbon filtration on their control tank, so they had to cancel the study.

The reason I am emphatic about that is so that people don't go down a rabbit hole with something that is easy to do, but does not solve the problem.

True short circuits in aquariums is another matter, and that can cause risk to human health.


Jay

 

[dandi]

Thanks for the education Jay. I definitely did not do a research study on the issue.
Being out of the hobby for over 10 years has me at a disadvantage. That's why I joined the forum

 

[Uncle99]

Looks normal in the stills to me, can’t see the vid. I run carbon 24-7 for 5 years.

 

[lucasmaximas]

Looks normal in the stills to me

 

[lucasmaximas]

Slightly better photo showing the hlle

 

[lucasmaximas]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I see some minor HLLE. I would stop using carbon except well rinsed pelleted carbon. Here is a synopsis of my HLLE research:

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

I have now removed the carbon from the system and will continue doing water changes and offering plenty of seaweed.



I already run Seachem Purigen. It is my understanding that it won’t remove some of the chemicals that carbon does and focuses more on nitrogenous organics.



What would you recommend running I place of carbon to pick up anything the purigen misses? I was considering either Seachem renew or hypersorb?



Any other thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have now removed the carbon from the system and will continue doing water changes and offering plenty of seaweed.



I already run Seachem Purigen. It is my understanding that it won’t remove some of the chemicals that carbon does and focuses more on nitrogenous organics.



What would you recommend running I place of carbon to pick up anything the purigen misses? I was considering either Seachem renew or hypersorb?



Any other thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.

What type of carbon were you using? It is primarily the bulk lignite carbon that causes issues. Pelleted carbon, well rinsed, does not cause an issue to the same degree.

Also - this is really important: you've only had the tang for two weeks. It takes around 30 days for HLLE to begin showing up after carbon exposure, that means this tang was previously exposed during the supply chain.

Jay

 

[lucasmaximas]

What type of carbon were you using? It is primarily the bulk lignite carbon that causes issues. Pelleted carbon, well rinsed, does not cause an issue to the same degree.

Also - this is really important: you've only had the tang for two weeks. It takes around 30 days for HLLE to begin showing up after carbon exposure, that means this tang was previously exposed during the supply chain.

Jay

Thanks for the rapid reply Jay! I agree that the tang was exposed to carbon prior to reaching me, I’m just trying to make sure I don’t inflict any further damage.

I have always run Seachem carbon matrix in the past.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the rapid reply Jay! I agree that the tang was exposed to carbon prior to reaching me, I’m just trying to make sure I don’t inflict any further damage.

I have always run Seachem carbon matrix in the past.

I didn't test Matrix, so I can't speak to that. ROX 0.8 seems to work well for lots of folks.

Jay