Hobbyist destroying the reefs?

[Tabasco1]

I think the most important step we can make as a hobby is to create awareness or impact, awareness of options for sources as well as the methods of collection that our sources are using. We have control in that we can choose not to purchase/fund operations that are collecting in an irresponsible mannor.

To say that there is no impact from this hobby is folly, but it can definately be managed in a responsible way and ideally in a way that would not impact wild populations. I live in Colorado and there is big business in hunting and fishing. I forget how much more, but it is FAR more profitable for the state than revenue from skiing. The wild life population is very strictly managed (primarily because it is in CO's best interest financially to do so), but there is culling of the population every year and they have studied it enough to know how much is ok to take without effecting a decline in populations of elk, bear, trout, what have you. It is a way of life.

The biggest challenge in our hobby is that there is no regulatory body to study and define what level of harvesting is sustainable. And we all know how good man is at self regulation. One look at any number of industries that have been deregulated or have little regulation can tell you that.

I am sure that the responsible collectors are just as concerned if not MUCH MORE so than the average person because the irresponsible collectors are essentially damaging the supply to their business.

 

[cdness]

Are we affecting the reefs, yes. Are we as a people contributing to the decline of the reefs, Yes. Are we as a people also contributing to the decline of the rainforests, ozone layer, and other species in the world, Yes. We as a people can learn to live with a smaller impact on the world while still being able to enjoy the parts that make us happy. Lower impact doesn't mean give it all up either.

I have a full mixed reef at my house. It has many different corals and fish. I can say that I take pride in knowing that the corals I have purchased are all captive grown or aquacultured and not full colonies taken from the reefs. This is assuming the information I have is correct on the corals. I also hope that I am doing my part to help sustain and promote this hobby by offering information and coral frags to people who ask. By distributing captive grown frags we are preventing (or at least reducing) that coral from being harvested from the reef.

There are the extremists like Snorkel Bob and that writer who is part of the Sea Shepard group who feel the hobby is killing the reefs. They are looking only at one small part of the picture and not at all the other much larger causes of reef decline. I by no means call myself an expert, but from the novice level I wouldn't even think of blaming the hobby for the decline of the reefs.

On a side note, the higher price we pay for corals increases the collection of that type. Get the prices down and get them spread out so there can be more captive grown frags of these super rare, ultra colored, One of a kind (until more are harvested) corals. Remember $1000 per eye does nothing more to save the reef than a $25 toward a frag of something that was captive grown. The only difference is someone, somewhere is making a killing off the reef.

** Edit: Just another side note, my reef was started with all dead rock from BRS as well so no impact to the live rock on the reefs there either.

 

[Bubbles_B]

We have a significant impact on the natural reefs. The biodiversity there is probably ten times the amount foundon land within the rain forests of the world. We should practice GREEN REEFING methods but we can't control the needs of the people that are native to these places of origin. They have to feed their families and this is the business that they are in. They are supporting a need and an everylasting demand for rare vibrant corals. We should stop, we can stop, but we choose not to. This is just my personal opinion

 

[reef_lover24881]

I'm currently in Hawaii and will be leaving for Fiji really soon and all I have to say after seeing all the beautiful tangs, triggers, and all other kinds of fish, is that it's just wrong to take any of these fish and put them in a tiny little cube. I don't care if you have an 800 gallon tank it's still no ocean by any means. I did notice that almost every single tang I have seen this far in the ocean has grown far greater than the ones we have in our small tanks which tells me they can't grow to their full capabilities in our tiny 800 gallon cubes. It's just sad. As much as I love this hobby I hope one day nothing can be imported!!!

 

[lars]

I also beleive we have harvested enough coral and fish to propagate and breed for the hobby to survive.. So I do not see a need to keep harvesting at the rate they are or they should stop harvesting altogether..

i totally agree. although it may limit what i am able to get i would be happy with what we already grow.

 

[reefsmokinFOOL]

+1 Blazingnano. Reef hobbyist imo remove nowhere near the amount of fish as what the populataion consumes(eats). Take shark fin soup for instance or the tuna family or cod. Cod is the big one since it is nearly impossible to get anymore. Coral is mainly removed for our hobby. I dont really know of any other reason to remove it from our ocean. Lets just hope that the medical field or Asia doesnt find some new use for coral. But as they deplete the fishing stock (and they will) than they will very well find a use for coral. We can then use whats in our tanks to try and repopulate very small parts of reefs.

 

[grouse]

My 2 C looking back to the 60s very few LFS retailed marine live stock those who did did so on a limited basis & usually required preorders due to there inability to keep clowns ,psudos & even damsels with homade salt mixes & undergravle filters however due to intrest in the hobby over the Years aquacukture & knoledge of keeping marine species has advanced
50 fold
due to these advances , the same ones driven by the for profit industry
we are now beginning to have studyed many of marine species to the point of sucessful probigation & husbandry it will be the same fule that enables us to continue advances in probigation that will ultimately lead to reduced harvest & has
to date been the knollege nessary to start several repopulation " seeding projects "

without fail our hobby is a doubble edged swoard & to date a sucessfull means to research

just somthing to ponder

 

[geckoman2003]

Well, I'm sure my opion will upset alot of you. However, I'm going to give it with the understanding that it may get me band.
1. Yes the hobbies are having a impact on the reefs. It is small in nature. We have moved so far from the things of the past. The doa rate has dropped way down from the past. Shipping, husbandrey, and captive breeding has improved greatly.

2. There must be some wild collection. If for no other reason, to ensure that man's daily impact not our hobbies does not wipe out a entire local with no possibility of bringing it back.

3. Global warming is BS. They tried "Global cooling" in the 70's and 80's. It didn't work. It was proved wrong. So the same people changed the name to "Global Warming". These people were found to be frauds this year with the leaked internal papers from their organization. So now the progressives want us to just call it "Climate change". This is because their documents showed that the temps change up and down from year to year. Now follow the money!! Who wins big with climate change? The people who are keeping and eye on it get massive grants to do so(keeping them employeed) and the people who offer a solution. Need I remind you of the person who brought us the "Inconvient trueth" movie. He has become rich beyond his wildest dreams. Yet he drives gas drinking suv's, has a hughe house yet he is the only one who lives there, and flies around the world on his private jet. Not very eco-friendly!!!! Now the biggest winner is our governments. They gain more and more power over us. They will tell us what cars to drive, where we can go on vacation, what we can eat, what light bulbs we can use, how many children we can have, and finally they will start a new tax to take our money/ power. If you don't beleave check out the "Cap and Trade" bill.

I firmly beleave our hobby can be mantain in a manor that allows and ensures future gens have it as well. If you don't, then why are you in the hobby? This seems to me that is similar to being a "Green" champion and driving a large SUV with a hughe v8 under the hood.

However this is just my 2 cents! This was not directed at anyone in paticular. It's just me opion.

 

[Troylee]

i think people destroy reefs not the hobbyist.....it's oil spills etc causing more harm than good i think if they were not pruned by us they would be over grown and wipe each other out anyways....:tongue:

 

[Tabasco1]

I kindof feel like we are getting a bit off topic or at least away from constructive comments.

Yes, there is impact from the hobby on the reef. Can that be managaged in a sustainable way, yes. And as we are learning more and the vendor chain is learning more those practices are changing for the better, but probably could still be improved and there are probably those that are still using irresponsible techniques. You could take away our impact and the other threats could still decimate the reefs. If you took away the other threats our hobby wouldn't decimate the reefs. It is just that simple.

Where we as a hobby can have the most impact is in being aware of the OTHER impacts to the reef and voicing our support in all things sustainable and being aware of dangers and (at the risk of sounding idealistic) being the voice of the reef. Clearly we are in the hobby because we love these animals and appreciate their beauty, so I am pretty sure that we all would like to see minimal impact to the reefs. Perhaps it would be a good thing to have a forum for REEF IMPACT where you can read about various threats around the world and to different reefs and how to make a positive change. Don't know what the answer is, but it sure isn't in pointing fingers and blanket statements. It is in identifying the issues, looking for their root and coming up with actions that are realistic and positive for all parties involved.

 

[Tabasco1]

In addition, we think of this all in relation to our tanks. There are still many people who rely on the reef as a food source for their families. And to them the impact is alot more real. If an area is getting over fished the cheif of the village will declare a taboo on that section to allow it to recover. All of that stuff is a huge debate for countries like Fiji where 80% of the GDP is on tourism. If they loose their reefs it will have a huge effect on tourism. However they need to balance their villages need for food and the collection for the aquarium trade. I think so far they manage their fishing and rock collection very well to preserve their resource.

 

[gar732]

Well, I'm sure my opion will upset alot of you. However, I'm going to give it with the understanding that it may get me band.
1. Yes the hobbies are having a impact on the reefs. It is small in nature. We have moved so far from the things of the past. The doa rate has dropped way down from the past. Shipping, husbandrey, and captive breeding has improved greatly.

2. There must be some wild collection. If for no other reason, to ensure that man's daily impact not our hobbies does not wipe out a entire local with no possibility of bringing it back.

3. Global warming is BS. They tried "Global cooling" in the 70's and 80's. It didn't work. It was proved wrong. So the same people changed the name to "Global Warming". These people were found to be frauds this year with the leaked internal papers from their organization. So now the progressives want us to just call it "Climate change". This is because their documents showed that the temps change up and down from year to year. Now follow the money!! Who wins big with climate change? The people who are keeping and eye on it get massive grants to do so(keeping them employeed) and the people who offer a solution. Need I remind you of the person who brought us the "Inconvient trueth" movie. He has become rich beyond his wildest dreams. Yet he drives gas drinking suv's, has a hughe house yet he is the only one who lives there, and flies around the world on his private jet. Not very eco-friendly!!!! Now the biggest winner is our governments. They gain more and more power over us. They will tell us what cars to drive, where we can go on vacation, what we can eat, what light bulbs we can use, how many children we can have, and finally they will start a new tax to take our money/ power. If you don't beleave check out the "Cap and Trade" bill.

I firmly beleave our hobby can be mantain in a manor that allows and ensures future gens have it as well. If you don't, then why are you in the hobby? This seems to me that is similar to being a "Green" champion and driving a large SUV with a hughe v8 under the hood.

However this is just my 2 cents! This was not directed at anyone in paticular. It's just me opion.

Lol, +1. I'll take the heat with you brother!

Mother nature herself has the biggest impact on this earth. Far bigger than man can compete with. How many carbon emissions are released into the atmosphere when a volcano erupts? I believe the impact this hobby has on reefs is minimal especially in comparison to other events cause by both nature and man. That beings said I still think collecting from the reef should be done responsibly, invasive species that would reek havoc if released into the area should not be sold in that area. Buy aqua cultured whenever possible. We shouldn't buy something that we can't keep. Most of the time it's misinformation that leads to death but I think forums like this are helping to change that.

 

[mapn4reef]

This might have been mentioned...But if LFSs who sell marine aquaria had to be "certified" is some manor, this might seriously reduce the impact, as I've seen (or heard of) more dead fish (and corals) in stores than anywhere else due to improper care, substandard equipment to support such life, lack of employee knowledge, on and on... Example...Petco, if they would discontinue sales of saltwater fish/corals, this alone would aid tremendously at protecting the supply of these critters. Not just picking on the large chain retailer, but I've seen several mom and pop LFSs just as bad. Just something to consider in this discussion.

 

[geckoman2003]

This might have been mentioned...But if LFSs who sell marine aquaria had to be "certified" is some manor, this might seriously reduce the impact, as I've seen (or heard of) more dead fish (and corals) in stores than anywhere else due to improper care, substandard equipment to support such life, lack of employee knowledge, on and on... Example...Petco, if they would discontinue sales of saltwater fish/corals, this alone would aid tremendously at protecting the supply of these critters. Not just picking on the large chain retailer, but I've seen several mom and pop LFSs just as bad. Just something to consider in this discussion.

You are correct with this line of thinking. I would just ask this... Who certifies them and checks to ensure they continue to follow propper care?

My thoughts are anyone but the government. We already have to much government envolvment in our lives. Besides they couldn't run it right and can't afford to.

The reality is they must police themselves. You talked about "Petco". My locals did stop selling saltwater critters due to lose of profit. I know the "P"-word is a 4 letter word to some, but it is what drives a company. Now this did take some time before them came to this line of thinking which was at the cost of many lives.

 

[mapn4reef]

Perhaps have an entity like MASNA certify them. Or some peer type organization, non-profit, or perhaps a private business type of entity. Definitely not the government. There could be local reef club members who get qualified to observe/report on a specific region on a quarterly basis, then there's a yearly evaluation that is more comprehensive conducted by the main oversight entity.

I've heard rumor that our local Petco is supposedly getting out of marine, but as of a month ago they were still stocking...breaks my heart everytime.

Folks mentioned local fisherman are utilizing the reefs as a source of livelihood. I think these same fisherman can be educated to switch to aquaculture/mariculture practices, especilly in the more sensitive or already impacted locations. I think the hobby is certainly sustainable by other means than wild caught live stock. I do agree, some wild specimens should continue to supply the sustainable operations... I think these practices are the future.

 

[mapn4reef]

Petco and the like doing more damage than true hobbyist, if they valued the critters and cared for them accordingly then that would be different.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/vendor-feedback/61498-how-about-petco.html#post710830