How can I use lanthanum chloride with a canister filter?

nim6us

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I'm interested in correcting a phosphate issue. After a blackout to clear some stubborn algae I'm in a much better spot. It's been several weeks and with UV the algae is under control. However the massive has die off has spiked my phos to 0.3ppm. I've done a few 30% WCs and a good clean out of my canister filter but it's barely put a dent in it I'm still at 0.24ppm.

I'm looking to do a course correction and I've heard good results from using lanthanum chloride. However from my understanding what happens is it binds to the phos and then is removed by skimmer or filter sock. Unfortunately I only have a canister filter on this system, I'm looking for another option that would allow me to use lanthanum chloride, any suggestions?
 

Fish Think Pink

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I'm interested in correcting a phosphate issue. After a blackout to clear some stubborn algae I'm in a much better spot. It's been several weeks and with UV the algae is under control. However the massive has die off has spiked my phos to 0.3ppm. I've done a few 30% WCs and a good clean out of my canister filter but it's barely put a dent in it I'm still at 0.24ppm.

I'm looking to do a course correction and I've heard good results from using lanthanum chloride. However from my understanding what happens is it binds to the phos and then is removed by skimmer or filter sock. Unfortunately I only have a canister filter on this system, I'm looking for another option that would allow me to use lanthanum chloride, any suggestions?
We were just talking about lanthanum... Would think your canister filter would be fine. I also vacuum my sand when I do water changes.

This is product I use https://www.melevsreef.com/product/phosphate-rx

If you have yellow tang, BE CAREFUL! I do, so I went with Phosphate Rx version (seems safer than using pool chemicals in aquarium). I have yellow tang and so I use 10 drops for 200g mixed in water then added to high flow of sump) so it actually flows thru rest of sump, into DT, then down into socks of sump (nearly full circle, just 6-10" from where it was added).

2/5/21 I was at .580 and by 3/31 I was at .058 ... order of magnitude less over two months!! BUT I was able to do it and keep yellow tang and everything happy & healthy!!

I did try Red Sea NoPoX 15ml but just 2/28/20 as I was afraid my nitrates would bottom out as really my problem was just phosphates. I didn't record what Red Sea contribution was
 

Fish Think Pink

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Put some gfo in a bag and put it in the canister.
GFO didn't do much for me (yet) but I'm not yet using it in a reactor. In a canister filter YEAH!! In fact, that might be my answer to how I really want to use GFO. Currently put GFO in nylon toe/foot & tied off other end, then tossed this 'bag' into high flow of sump. Good tip

This is my link to GFO recommended to me thru my local DFWMAS.org reef club as cheaper than BRS:
 
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nim6us

nim6us

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Thanks for the great answers. I tried SeaChem Phosguard and I just wasn’t seeing the results. Funny it was MelevsReef that actually made me think of using Phosphate RX!

I had been avoiding GFO because I’d heard it was a bit messy and could decimate your phos if your weren’t careful, but maybe that’s a better option here.

Also I considered NoPox as well but in my experience it really has more of an affect on nitrates then it does phos. And nitrates are stable with a few caps of Microbacter7.
 

chris_pull

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I'd strongly caution against this route of action.

I run a "canister reef" that had higher levels of phosphate. I tried the GFO in a bag in the canister and it would help but was not effective enough unless I replaced it weekly, which is not ideal. Probably over a long enough timeline I could have gotten it down and then stable, but it was a mess that I hated dealing with and would also need frequent replacing.

I decided to try LC and went with the product from Quantum. I asked them if it would be okay on my system as I don't have a skimmer and only run a canister. I dosed according to the manufacturer's guidance and worked up to the recommended dose, whilst monitoring PO4 every 24 hours. The product worked very well and I managed to get my Po4 down to an acceptable level – I think I had PO4 bound up in the sand or rock as it remained stable for a week or so then suddenly plummeted and has remained low since (though see below). However, within two weeks of dosing it, I lost two conch, three cerith snail and uncountable numbers of baby trochus. The latter had been breeding like crazy but I've not had any more spawning events and still regularly find empty shells and weak snails that can't seem to stay on the glass/rocks. My sexy shrimp also disappeared, a cleaner shrimp died and I've not seen my boxing crab since either.

Of course, I cannot definitively say the LC caused all this, but I am not the only one to report similar effects of LC on molluscs, particularly baby trochus. Perhaps the lower PO4 meant there was suddenly less algae for all these inverts to eat, though I doubt this as I was still cleaning the glass regularly and I can see lots of pods feeding on it. I've also felt that my tank hasn't quite been the same since, with slow coral growth and more deaths (though again, this could be due to lowering the PO4, rather than the LC). However, if you take a read through this review on lanthanum, you'll find that, particularly in freshwater, there are numerous studies finding toxic and other effects on invertebrates and fish. There are fewer studies in marine water but lanthanum has been found to cause mortality in sea urchin embryos, for example. It also seems that lanthanum bioaccumulates in organisms over time, so its effects could be more chronic than acute. Finally, it also seems to bioaccumulate in algae, which is then obviously consumed by our clean up crew and fish.

I think in systems with skimmers the LC flocculates are pulled out of the water but they pass through any filtration in a canister-powered system and settle out in the tank. I wish I had never used it and would not recommend LC to those running systems without a filter sock to catch the flocs or a skimmer to pull them out.

For me, the risks of dosing this product, despite lots of people having success, are not worth it. I assume this comes down to how effective the filtration is and I think a canister filter system just doesn't have the ability to effectively deal with LC. For a canister system, I suggest you take a look at my build thread where I've installed a cheap (<$30) DIY algae reactor on the outlet of my canister so that the water is filtered by the algae before returning to the tank. This easily keeps my NO3 and PO4 in check (if not too low!) and is a natural mechanism that won't harm any of your critters (well, so long as it doesn't strip the tank of macro and micronutrients). It also requires far less maintenance and will also raise your pH if you run at night.
 
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nim6us

nim6us

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@chris_pull Wow dude that is a bummer! I'm a bit nervous now, because I found a thread on another forum saying it would be fine, just put some fine filter floss in while treating and then throw it away 48 hours after. I ended up getting some Phosphat-E from Brightwell, it took about 3 days to get it in line as I was dosing conservatively but it did the trick. However now after reading your experience I'm a little concerned I've got a ticking time bomb! o_O

If it all goes south I'll be sure to post on this thread with an update. If you're reading this a month plus from now and I haven't followed up that means all is still well.. here's hoping I don't have to update this thread!
 

chris_pull

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Sorry I didn’t mean to worry you. From what I read the filter floss isn’t sufficient to catch the flocs, but I’m not sure. I didn’t change mine (I change them weekly) so perhaps that was my problems. Good luck!
 

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