How do I start over successfully?

[davehead86]

Long story short is that I have a mixed reef tank that went to crap. My tank got overrun with GHA, i lost half my corals in the battle, the GHA is still there and I cannot get rid of it without spending what seems like hours of time each day and hundreds of dollars a month to get rid of it. I hate looking at my tank now, and with the summer coming around and the free time it provides me (Im a teacher) I really want to just totally start over. But I have no idea where to begin with that.

I have a 65 Gallon DT ...
2 Radion G3 in a canopy
2MP 10
2 Hydor Korila for surface agitation
40 Breeder sump in the basement
K2 120 Skimmer
Eshopps 2 channel doser (dosing 2 part obviously)
BRS Carbon / GFO Reactor run by MJ1200
M1 return pump running at 35%


Ive got the equipment to be successful and I had the tank running great for 6+ months before I introduced several frags with GHA and didnt address the problem initially. I want to go back to my tank looking awesome like it did before with giant growing corals and happy fish. I just need advice on how to get there.



Current Plan ...
Buy a 40 gallon tank, put all of my fish in that tank and all of my corals in that tank and run it with the algae covered rock and some of the sand from the current tank so that I dont cause a cycle / can keep all of my fish and surviving corals.

Totally redo all of my tank setup with dry rock and brand new sand. I dont want ANY type of algae introduced into my tank again to cause these types of problems again.

Questions Im currently having ...
1. How do I ensure that i have removed all of the baddies from the old tank / setup before I start trying to get fish and rocks back into the tank?

2. Will the transfer of rock and sand to a new tank to hold the fish cause and cycle and kill my fish? I dont think it will but the last time I moved stuff I didnt take sand with me and I didnt have any corals besides ZOAS and GSP.

3. What method should I use for this tank from here on out. Continue with 2 part dosing and the "old school" method but just add an Algae Reactor to encourage algae growth in a controlled part of the tank, or go Triton? Aqua Forrest? Zeovit is out of the question for me (unknown bottles are not a good idea IMHO).

 

[davehead86]

Apparently my computer double posts now too.

 

[PiscesPower]

Are you 100% sure its GHA and not bryopsis. I only ask because I struggled with, not near as bad, what I thought was GHA. It was bryopsis and I have cured it with Fluconazole. I don't know that there is anything else that will kill it. There are a number of threads, including mine about it. Once I took a zoomed in photo and saw the fronds, I got it confirmed on here and then was able to make a plan. This is bryopsis zoomed in.

 

[K. Steven]

Pull as much out as you can, then dose fluconazole. You should see results in a couple of weeks. Just stay on top of nutrient export as the algae dies.

 

[trido]

I agree with the fluconazel treatment. Your tank doesnt look too bad. Last summer my display had GHA. I spent 5 hours with a tooth brush one night and followed up with fluconaze and it was gone in a couple weeks.

 

[davehead86]

I did flucazole and it didnt work. Nothing happened, none of the algae went away. My attempt at manual removal resulted in the subsequent death of multiple corals, all my inverts, and two fish.

Im pretty sure its not bryopsis but Im not an expert. It doesnt look like the classic fern so thats why i dont think its bryopsis.

 

[manilaboy1vic]

i basically started over with my tank by removing the sandbed.. it was cyano dominated tank..

i just drained the DT into a 55g rubbermaid.. and put everything in there... fish/btas/rock etc..

removed the sand and transfered everything back.. so im barebottom now..

i have a 68g tank.. had a kole tang in there.. he pooped non stop.. got rid of him too.. i think my 68g is too small for a tang, poop machine.. unless you are religious about WC and vacuuming sand for tang poop..

after the sand delete i went on a massive pump cleaning, sump cleaning rampage..

its nice to have the pumps and everything running optimal.. way better skim now as well...

you can probably get some stiff brush or stainless steel looking toothbrush type and scrap that algae off.. i been doing this with some rogue daisy polyps that i cant stand... if you get new rock / sand then you gotta cycle the tank right??

i keep LR in my sump.. so i just exchanged the nasty ones with the ones in the sump.. now the nasty rocks will be with out light for a very very long time

 

[davehead86]

i basically started over with my tank by removing the sandbed.. it was cyano dominated tank..

i just drained the DT into a 55g rubbermaid.. and put everything in there... fish/btas/rock etc..

removed the sand and transfered everything back.. so im barebottom now..

i have a 68g tank.. had a kole tang in there.. he pooped non stop.. got rid of him too.. i think my 68g is too small for a tang, poop machine.. unless you are religious about WC and vacuuming sand for tang poop..

after the sand delete i went on a massive pump cleaning, sump cleaning rampage..

its nice to have the pumps and everything running optimal.. way better skim now as well...

you can probably get some stiff brush or stainless steel looking toothbrush type and scrap that algae off.. i been doing this with some rogue daisy polyps that i cant stand... if you get new rock / sand then you gotta cycle the tank right??

i keep LR in my sump.. so i just exchanged the nasty ones with the ones in the sump.. now the nasty rocks will be with out light for a very very long time

I already went at the rock with the stainless steel brushes. They work but the algae comes back.
Other people can seem to keep tanks with Tangs (multiple) and not have these problems. Surely a good clean up crew is the solution to that becoming a problem again. I was thinking of adding several sand sifting sea stars, some fighting conchs, and banishing my YellowWatchman to the sump and adding a Diamond Goby to the display.

I had not thought about using a rubbermaid container. Maybe cheaper than picking up a new tank?

 

[FirstContact]

You could try a blackout for five days with the tank covered or remove all the rock and put it in a trashcan with saltwater and a powerhead and keep that covered for five days. Aggressive filtration and a larger water change if you cover the tank as all the nutrients from the dead algae go back into the water.

 

[manilaboy1vic]

I already went at the rock with the stainless steel brushes. They work but the algae comes back.
Other people can seem to keep tanks with Tangs (multiple) and not have these problems. Surely a good clean up crew is the solution to that becoming a problem again. I was thinking of adding several sand sifting sea stars, some fighting conchs, and banishing my YellowWatchman to the sump and adding a Diamond Goby to the display.

I had not thought about using a rubbermaid container. Maybe cheaper than picking up a new tank?

i think the 55g rubbermaid was 25 bucks.. something like that.. do you run gfo or any phosphate remover??

when i removed my sand it was so nasty and kole poopy.. so glad both are out of my life.. replaced the kole with smaller less poopy fish ive run gfo from the beginning.. not really had too much of an algae issue.. jsut the cyano.. from mr kole.

 

[Rick Krejci]

You are never going to prevent GHA from entering your system, and if you don't figure out what's going on and how you can solve it, you'll end up even more despaired. Especially starting with dry rock, you may even go the dino or cyano spiral, which are more difficult than GHA to solve.

What are you parameters? Looks like you may have a little Chaeto in the sump, but I don't see the light. I'm using a very strong light in the sump (Kessil H380) and my chaeto grows about a densely packed softball's worth every week, only running 8 hrs'night. I sometimes dose Nitrates and Phosphates to keep them from bottoming out. I have all kinds of different algae's in my DT from the real Florida Live rock I put in, but my CUC keeps them tidy and well trimmed and the Chaeto keeps nutrients down and keeps them from getting out of hand. IMO, algae isn't something to be eradicated, it's something to be embraced, but controlled. Same with nutrients.

I have an urchin (which I see you have) and some varieties of turbo snails and lots and lots of pods and a few other creatures from the LR. I'm at a pretty good balance.

I originally started with Dry rock and was unable to achieve balance (dinos, cyano). It wasn't until I introduced biodiversity with the LR that it was able to settle down and come into balance.

There are 1000 ways to do this hobby, you just have to come to terms with what works for you. I'm just afraid if you don't figure out the issue now, you are likely doomed to repeat it. Again, you will never prevent the algae from being introduced eventually. Even if you can for a while, the second it is introduced, there will be nothing that controls it in your tank and it will explode. Once you figure out how to control the algae, you will have another arrow in your quiver of how to solve issues and your tank will be able to keep it in balance for you.

 

[davehead86]

You could try a blackout for five days with the tank covered or remove all the rock and put it in a trashcan with saltwater and a powerhead and keep that covered for five days. Aggressive filtration and a larger water change if you cover the tank as all the nutrients from the dead algae go back into the water.

Tried blackouts before the Flucazole. Didnt phase it.

You are never going to prevent GHA from entering your system, and if you don't figure out what's going on and how you can solve it, you'll end up even more despaired. Especially starting with dry rock, you may even go the dino or cyano spiral, which are more difficult than GHA to solve.

What are you parameters? Looks like you may have a little Chaeto in the sump, but I don't see the light. I'm using a very strong light in the sump (Kessil H380) and my chaeto grows about a densely packed softball's worth every week, only running 8 hrs'night. I sometimes dose Nitrates and Phosphates to keep them from bottoming out. I have all kinds of different algae's in my DT from the real Florida Live rock I put in, but my CUC keeps them tidy and well trimmed and the Chaeto keeps nutrients down and keeps them from getting out of hand. IMO, algae isn't something to be eradicated, it's something to be embraced, but controlled. Same with nutrients.

I have an urchin (which I see you have) and some varieties of turbo snails and lots and lots of pods and a few other creatures from the LR. I'm at a pretty good balance.

I originally started with Dry rock and was unable to achieve balance (dinos, cyano). It wasn't until I introduced biodiversity with the LR that it was able to settle down and come into balance.

There are 1000 ways to do this hobby, you just have to come to terms with what works for you. I'm just afraid if you don't figure out the issue now, you are likely doomed to repeat it. Again, you will never prevent the algae from being introduced eventually. Even if you can for a while, the second it is introduced, there will be nothing that controls it in your tank and it will explode. Once you figure out how to control the algae, you will have another arrow in your quiver of how to solve issues and your tank will be able to keep it in balance for you.

I respect this a lot. But I CANNOT for the life of me figure out what the heck caused this massive algae spiral Im in right now.
I had a 20 gallon tank for a while and there was algae in that tank because I didnt have my lights tuned properly and i was WAY over feeding the tank.

So lessons learned for the 65 gallon. My Radions follow approved schedules proven to be just right for my corals. I cut my feedings way back (probably almost too much) to 2x a week. Tank did great. Parameters all checked out in the normal ranges (alk hovers right under 8, 380 cal, 1350 mag). I got a little lazy with the water changes when my son was born and then all of a sudden BAM this algae all shows up. I start cleaning and scrubbing and changing water and nothing makes it go away. I have FOUR urchins a tang and a lawnmower blenny all constantly eating off my rocks and then cannot keep up with the algae. Basically they can keep the back wall clean and rotate a clean spot on the rocks that fills in a few days later.

I run GFO and Carbon 24/7, run a skimmer, have a PAR 38 Bulb over my fuge (it wont grow because its clogged with GHA too).

Seriously at this point in time I have no idea what has caused all of this and am out of ideas to continue to fight it. Ive tossed around the idea of one more shot at Reefflux (flucazole). I need to clean the tank before I do that and I really dont want to kill off whats left in the tank by cleaning it too aggressively again. Thats why I want to start over and introduce an algae scrubber into my sump or run the Triton Method and have a huge fuge to have my algae be in a place that is contained, controlled, and beneficial for the algae and the tank. I dont need all the algae eradicated but six inch long trees of it growing off my back wall where i cant clean is a problem, so is it covering every last inch of rockwork that I have.

 

[Ocelaris]

Try Fluconazole AND Algaefix. Do a water change at day a 1, then dose Fluconazole and AlgaeFix. Then dose Algaefix in another 3 days. after one week do you water change, carbon filtering etc... for a few days, then repeat the Fluconazole/Algaefix treatment. I'm 95% certain this will get rid of your algae. I have a nasty bryopsis case, and it was working, but I stopped because we had a flood (rain), and gave me a chance to reboot. One round of Fluconazole will stunt it, but AlgaeFix + Fluconazole in 2 or 3 rounds will obliterate it. I don't consider nuisance algae a reason for a reboot with those two treatments anymore. After the fluconazole and AlgaeFix chaeto was unaffected and tank looked as good as it ever has.

 

[davehead86]

Try Fluconazole AND Algaefix. Do a water change at day a 1, then dose Fluconazole and AlgaeFix. Then dose Algaefix in another 3 days. after one week do you water change, carbon filtering etc... for a few days, then repeat the Fluconazole/Algaefix treatment. I'm 95% certain this will get rid of your algae. I have a nasty bryopsis case, and it was working, but I had to stop because we had a flood (rain), and gave me a chance to reboot. I don't consider nuisance algae a reason for a reboot with those two treatments anymore. After the fluconazole and AlgaeFix chaeto was unaffected and tank looked as good as it ever has.

Im willing to give this one more go before a reboot. Last time I only ran one course of the Fluconazole and did not know about Algae Fix.
Does anyone have any other advice for these treatments to have them be successful?

 

[Rick Krejci]

[QUOTE="davehead86, post: 4752135, member: 84597"... have a PAR 38 Bulb over my fuge (it wont grow because its clogged with GHA too).

.... Thats why I want to start over and introduce an algae scrubber into my sump or run the Triton Method and have a huge fuge to have my algae be in a place that is contained, controlled, and beneficial for the algae and the tank. I dont need all the algae eradicated but six inch long trees of it growing off my back wall where i cant clean is a problem, so is it covering every last inch of rockwork that I have.[/QUOTE]

From the pics, it looks like you have a good amount of room for a Chaeto fuge. You are trying to out-compete probably 200-300 par DT with a 38 PAR fuge light...it's a losing battle. I'd up your fuge light game quite a bit. Not going to get into the turn scrubber wars, but I know I've had great success with Chaeto and the H380. If I had unlimited nutrients and ran it 12 hrs/day, I'd bet I'd pull out a basketball/week. And my fuge area is much less than yours. I do throw a turbo down there every once in a while to keep the chaeto and walls clean.

I also found dumping a little peroxide on the worst areas while you're scrubbing does wonders to kill the footholds. Just rinse in some old tankwater before replacing the rock.

The chemicals will be a temporary fix. Removing and doing a thorough rinse of your gravel can help a huge amount as well. Restarting is no guarantee of success and you'd probably want to smash it with a hammer if the algae returns.

 

[davehead86]

... have a PAR 38 Bulb over my fuge (it wont grow because its clogged with GHA too).

.... Thats why I want to start over and introduce an algae scrubber into my sump or run the Triton Method and have a huge fuge to have my algae be in a place that is contained, controlled, and beneficial for the algae and the tank. I dont need all the algae eradicated but six inch long trees of it growing off my back wall where i cant clean is a problem, so is it covering every last inch of rockwork that I have.

From the pics, it looks like you have a good amount of room for a Chaeto fuge. You are trying to out-compete probably 200-300 par DT with a 38 PAR fuge light...it's a losing battle. I'd up your fuge light game quite a bit. Not going to get into the turn scrubber wars, but I know I've had great success with Chaeto and the H380. If I had unlimited nutrients and ran it 12 hrs/day, I'd bet I'd pull out a basketball/week. And my fuge area is much less than yours. I do throw a turbo down there every once in a while to keep the chaeto and walls clean.

I also found dumping a little peroxide on the worst areas while you're scrubbing does wonders to kill the footholds. Just rinse in some old tankwater before replacing the rock.

The chemicals will be a temporary fix. Removing and doing a thorough rinse of your gravel can help a huge amount as well. Restarting is no guarantee of success and you'd probably want to smash it with a hammer if the algae returns.

I know that a restart isnt a guarantee. Im not that naive anymore about this hobby. LOL
I think you have a very valid point about the FUGE light not being enough (it sustains the algae in the sump but doesnt allow it to flourish).
Unfortunately my rockwork is kinda all epoxied together, so I cant really pull rocks and clean and put them back in the tank (one of many problems). This also prevents me from being able to reach all of my gravel (yet another problem). Which is what moves me more towards a reboot than money on chemicals.

The chemicals being a quick fix is what worries me. Somewhere in my tank something is wrong, and Im not sure where I screwed this up. So my thought is to start over. Fresh and clean and go from all the mistakes I have made in the past and not make them again. At least I can attempt to frag the corals that Ive got now. They are hardy SPS and LPS. Fast growing and have been through the worst. One more tank transfer couldn't hurt them anymore than before.


Do you think the Kessil H80 Fuge light will work (little less of an impact on the wallet)

 

[Rick Krejci]

Sometimes a restart can be nice to apply some lessons learned that you've gotten along the journey. I'd only caution that expectations of everything being better should be downplayed. You may have even worse problems especially if you start sterile and keep nutrients low...dino's and cyano are much, much more difficult to deal with than GHA. Like you, I'm confused why it's not under control. You seem to be doing the right things overall. But perhaps finding an interesting herbivore that will munch it would take care of the issue for you. I used to have a Money Cowrie that was very cool looking and munched on GHA quite well.

In the BRS tests of fuge lights/Chaeto, the H80 was pretty unimpressive I thought. The H380 made a huge difference, but I will say I really wish it were dimmable, since it's really overkill for many situations. A lot of people seem to use the higher intensity grow LED lights from Amazon with success, a cheaper option than the H380. As BRS said, when you look at what we spend on DT lights, even the high price of the H380 seems cheap in comparison if you're trying to compete.

 

[davehead86]

Sometimes a restart can be nice to apply some lessons learned that you've gotten along the journey. I'd only caution that expectations of everything being better should be downplayed. You may have even worse problems especially if you start sterile and keep nutrients low...dino's and cyano are much, much more difficult to deal with than GHA. Like you, I'm confused why it's not under control. You seem to be doing the right things overall. But perhaps finding an interesting herbivore that will munch it would take care of the issue for you. I used to have a Money Cowrie that was very cool looking and munched on GHA quite well.

In the BRS tests of fuge lights/Chaeto, the H80 was pretty unimpressive I thought. The H380 made a huge difference, but I will say I really wish it were dimmable, since it's really overkill for many situations. A lot of people seem to use the higher intensity grow LED lights from Amazon with success, a cheaper option than the H380. As BRS said, when you look at what we spend on DT lights, even the high price of the H380 seems cheap in comparison if you're trying to compete.

Yeah I agree that I dont think this is going to solve every problem ever in my tank, but starting fresh with a new regimen can at least get me back to square one. And then problem solving from there isn't as hard.

Looks like the H380 is going to be where I go with this (BRS is right with the DT Lights). I DO NOT want to have a ULNS and plan on feeding more when the new tank is setup. And having the Fuge in the right part of the sump to use up those nutrients instead of having it grow all over the tank should help. And finally having a skimmer that can get the job done right, in the correct placement, dosing lines placed in the correct area and the Carbon / GFO (if needed) running in the correct location cant be a bad thing.

Ive been looking and I think I want to go with the Aquaforest regimen since its not far off from what Im currently doing but adds in what Im missing with extra dosing and is one system, not just whatever I have lying around. It also seems like the Fuge working properly offers relief from the need to change water as frequently as I currently have to (and dont). So that takes another step out of the rotation to mess up.

 

[Rick Krejci]

I started my latest tank 8 months ago and am trying to be minimalist. Since my Chaeto is so good at removing nutrients, I definitely don't run GFO...in fact I tend to dose Phosphate and or Nitrate just to keep levels off the floor. I run carbon once in a while just to remove yellowing. I run a good sized skimmer, but run it pretty dry (empty cup once every week or 2). no mechanical filtration whatsoever (removed the socks and put in plastic media cups in their place with some Chaeto thrown in them to hold some pods that would take care of some stuff trapped in it. If I stir stuff up, I'll throw some floss in the cups to trap the detritus, and remove it once things are cleared.

Pretty much all I need to do is feed, refill the ATO, clean the glass and remove handfulls of Chaeto. Have some algae in the DT, but the CUC takes care of most of it. I only do a water change when I think I have too much gunk in the gravel, where I'll siphon the crap out of the gravel while I to the change.

If you get the H380, I'd try to set it way up to start...it's super intense! I made a cone below the light to restrict the light to a smaller area in my sump and cut down on some of the light. You'll likely get algae growing around your fuge besides the Chaeto, but you can more easily clean it in there than the DT and it's doing the same job, so just roll with it. Or put a small CUC in the fuge to keep it neater. I throw a Turbo in there once a month or so for a few days to tidy up.

I started my tank with sterile rock and just artificial ammonia source and I frankly hated it...no life at all. And once I added some fish, started down the dino path. I've been using live rock on and off for decades and I love the critters and biodiversity, so I got a few chunks of uncured Florida live rock, cured them for a few weeks then added them to the DT. Breathed life into the tank and made it far more tolerant. Sure, there are some hitchhikers (good and bad), but I'd rather deal with that than trying to balance a BB on a beach ball wile the dry rock matures for a year or 2. Just my experience, and there are counter experiences of night mare hitchhikers and great success with Dry Rock. That's what makes this hobby interesting/frustrating.

Good luck with everything!

 

[davehead86]

Ive had great success with dry rock at the beginning of my journey a few years ago. The only thing I was missing in the system was Coraline Algae, but i picked up a clean frag from a buddy and then it started growing all over my tank.

You've had a lot of good advice, thanks for taking the time!