How effective is carbon at removing formalin / formaldehyde?

[DaddyFish]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I am running formalin/formaldehyde to wipe out an extremely stubborn Ich infestation (at a rate of 1ml Formalin / 10 gallons). One dose every 24-hours is allowing some noticeable return of symptoms, so I want to step that up to one dose every 12 or possibly every 8-hours. But it's a large tank and 20% water changes between doses is not practical more than once per 24-hours.

My thought is to run carbon for 2-3 hours at the end of and between doses, and stick with one 20% water change every 24 hours. Turnover flow rate in the sump is roughly 6x system volume. The carbon volume would be 1-lb / 100 gallons.

So my question is... Generally, how effective is carbon at removing formaldehyde? Do you think I can do this without significantly exceeding acceptable formaldehyde concentrations.

 

[MnFish1]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I am running formalin/formaldehyde to wipe out an extremely stubborn Ich infestation (at a rate of 1ml Formalin / 10 gallons). One dose every 24-hours is allowing some noticeable return of symptoms, so I want to step that up to one dose every 12 or possibly every 8-hours. But it's a large tank and 20% water changes between doses is not practical more than once per 24-hours.

My thought is to run carbon for 2-3 hours at the end of and between doses, and stick with one 20% water change every 24 hours. Turnover flow rate in the sump is roughly 6x system volume. The carbon volume would be 1-lb / 100 gallons.

So my question is... Generally, how effective is carbon at removing formaldehyde? Do you think I can do this without significantly exceeding acceptable formaldehyde concentrations.

Formalin is usually used as a 'dip' not a constantly dosed regimen. Its also not normally used in a display tank.

Because the 'long-term' meaning hours - acceptable formaldehyde concentration is 'zero'. I would suggest that whether carbon removes it or not is not the issue. But - Carbon does remove formaldehyde. My guess it would not do it quickly enough to do what you're wanting it to do.

Formaldehyde is also going to affect a lot more in your tank - than cryptocaryon.

I'm curious - where did you pick up this regimen for treating cryptocaryon? I've never heard of it.

PS - my guess is that at the levels you're using - the formaldehyde is not affecting the cryptocaryon. the changes you might be seeing - likely relate to the natural life-cycle of CI

PPS - what percent formaldehyde are you using?

 

[DaddyFish]

The regimen is extracted from directions for Hikari Ich-X Saltwater. I do understand it's not ideal, and certainly not as effective as a formalin dip, but it's pretty much all I have to work with right now.

Sorry, I probably mistyped the dosage in the first post. I'll go back and edit, so it's not misleading future reads. The med concentration is made using 37% formalin diluted 1:4, then dosed at 5 ml / 10 gal.

I was hoping the the formalin concentration would be sufficient to break the CI life cycle, and it does appear to have worked on most fish in the tank. However, there are a couple that continue to show reinfestation cycles.

All the corals and inverts have been removed from the tank. This is a last ditch effort to wipe out the Ich without having to break down the tank and reboot.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Is going fallow for 76 days not an option?
Why not remove fish and treat for 30 days in copper, leaving the tank to go fallow.
30 days of copper, 2 weeks of prazi/GC, and 30 days observation, then put them back in your now ich-free tank.

or how about Acriflavine instead (Ruby Reef Rally) of formalin.

 

[DaddyFish]

Is going fallow for 76 days not an option?
Why not remove fish and treat for 30 days in copper, leaving the tank to go fallow.
30 days of copper, 2 weeks of prazi/GC, and 30 days observation, then put them back in your now ich-free tank.

or how about Acriflavine instead (Ruby Reef Rally) of formalin.

Fallow is not an option. Not enough capacity in other tanks to house all the livestock.
Would prefer not to deal with copper in DT. That's a lot of equipment to "de-copperize". Plus all these fish came from copper environments and the Ich made it through anyway.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Fallow is not an option. Not enough capacity in other tanks to house all the livestock.
Would prefer not to deal with copper in DT. That's a lot of equipment to "de-copperize". Plus all these fish came from copper environments and the Ich made it through anyway.

You don't have to put copper in the DT... you put copper in a QT/hospital tank with all your fish.... you leave the DT fallow. (fishless) You can buy an aquarium from petco for $1 per gallon usually for a hospital tank. So for $30-$60 you can buy a 39G, 40B, 55, etc... for relatively cheap. all you need is a (small) heater and HOB filter. Treat them with copper at full therapeutic levels for 30 days. If anything is surviving the copper treatments, its usually because the copper wasn't strong enough or wasn't done long enough.. To be effective, the copper level must not dip below therapeutic levels at all, for 30 days, otherwise you have to restart the 30 day timer. That is where most people who have problems, fell short.

 

[DaddyFish]

You don't have to put copper in the DT... you put copper in a QT/hospital tank with all your fish.... you leave the DT fallow. (fishless) You can buy an aquarium from petco for $1 per gallon usually for a hospital tank. So for $30-$60 you can buy a 39G, 40B, 55, etc... for relatively cheap. all you need is a (small) heater and HOB filter. Treat them with copper at full therapeutic levels for 30 days. If anything is surviving the copper treatments, its usually because the copper wasn't strong enough or wasn't done long enough.. To be effective, the copper level must not dip below therapeutic levels at all, for 30 days, otherwise you have to restart the 30 day timer. That is where most people who have problems, fell short.

My apologies, did not intend for this to become a Fish Disease thread.

Fallow is not an option because it requires fish removal. Fish removal is not an option because it requires suitable Hospital/QT capacity for all the livestock. I have QT but not that large.
I'm very familiar and comfortable with copper treatments. Not everything works every time.

I am really looking for information/opinion on how rapid and effective carbon is at removing formaldehyde from the water column at a rate of 1-lb carbon/100-gals volume, flowing at 6x / hour. That information probably isn't available, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

[LeftyReefer]

My apologies, did not intend for this to become a Fish Disease thread.

Fallow is not an option because it requires fish removal. Fish removal is not an option because it requires suitable Hospital/QT capacity for all the livestock. I have QT but not that large.
I'm very familiar and comfortable with copper treatments. Not everything works every time.

I am really looking for information/opinion on how rapid and effective carbon is at removing formaldehyde from the water column at a rate of 1-lb carbon/100-gals volume, flowing at 6x / hour. That information probably isn't available, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Gotcha.
Good luck.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I'm not a Chemist and definitely not anywhere near Randy's level of experience with these things. I do use it alot for dips of new fish. Carbon will remove formalin/formaldehyde. I also believe it will dissipate rather quickly. That's why you are advised to add it daily. FWIW, the method you have described (or the commercial version) would not be my treatment method. Formalin/formaldehyde is very nonspecific and will damage things other that the Crypto if it ever gets to a therapeutic level.

 

[MnFish1]

My apologies, did not intend for this to become a Fish Disease thread.

Fallow is not an option because it requires fish removal. Fish removal is not an option because it requires suitable Hospital/QT capacity for all the livestock. I have QT but not that large.
I'm very familiar and comfortable with copper treatments. Not everything works every time.

I am really looking for information/opinion on how rapid and effective carbon is at removing formaldehyde from the water column at a rate of 1-lb carbon/100-gals volume, flowing at 6x / hour. That information probably isn't available, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I think your question was answered. In my opinion - it will not remove formaldehyde in the manner you described - where you want to side it to x level - and then have it removed in 2-3 hours First - its unlikely that you will get ALL of the water through the carbon each time it goes through the sump (unless you have another mechanism) - and then there will be some recirculation. etc etc. Since AFAIK, no one uses this method, there is likely to be little data out there - except in scientific papers. I did google it - trying to get information - most of the information I got related to removing formaldehyde from indoors using carbon. So - it certainly will 'remove it'.

You're right - you didn't ask for 'fish disease' opinions. That said - I do not believe that anyone thinks your method will work - so thats probably why people were giving you other suggestions.

 

[DaddyFish]

I appreciate the responses and I do realize everyone is trying to be helpful.

I've learned a valuable lesson about NSA aquascaping/rockwork. It looks good, but it's nearly impossible to catch fish in/around it without major risk of toppling rocks and scratching tanks. If something "gets loose" in the DT, you're pretty much screwed.

Apparently Hikari thinks the formalin method I'm using will work. That's why I'm attempting it. However, it doesn't seem to be effective enough on all species.

 

[MnFish1]

I appreciate the responses and I do realize everyone is trying to be helpful.

I've learned a valuable lesson about NSA aquascaping/rockwork. It looks good, but it's nearly impossible to catch fish in/around it without major risk of toppling rocks and scratching tanks. If something "gets loose" in the DT, you're pretty much screwed.

Apparently Hikari thinks the formalin method I'm using will work. That's why I'm attempting it. However, it doesn't seem to be effective enough on all species.

I said your method. Not the Hikari method. Here are the instructions:

"
For Best Results: (1) always treat in a separate quarantine/treatment tank, (2) remove activated carbon from filters and clean or replace mechanical filtration media (do not stop filtration!) (3) make at least 1/3 water change before each addition of Ich-X® . Larger water change improves performance; and (4) repeat treatments at least every 24 hours, but no more than every 8 hours, depending upon the course of the disease.

Continue uninterrupted treatments for three (3) days after all visible signs of disease conditions cease."

Suggest you use a fish trap to remove fish from your tank. Not trying to be snarky - just giving you the reality.

 

[revhtree]

Closed per OP request.