How long in observational QT?

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve literally never had good results w a freshwater dip ever. Every fish I’ve ever dipped gets really stressed and I have to pull them out before the 5 min. I match the temp and ph in the dip so I don’t know what I’m doing wrong.

I’ve actually never had a fish make it though 2 doses of prazi and 2 weeks of copper and show signs of disease after.

Dipping weak fish can be an issue - in this case, you are dipping as a diagnostic tool, and the fish would be post quarantine, as healthy as they are going to be. I've given FW dips to literally thousands of fish, and yes, they will give you all sorts of stress signs, but only die if they are already moribund, or in some rare cases, if they are so heavily parasitized with flukes, that when the dip knocks the flukes off, the fish literally bleeds out.

The reason the prazi doesn't control Neobenedenia is that species of fluke is an egg layer and prazi doesn't affect the eggs. The eggs can take up to 30 days to hatch. Two prazi treatment will miss eggs. Four treatments, spaced 10 days apart also won't work - have you heard the term "prazi resistant fluke"? Well, it isn't the flukes that are resistant, what happens is that heterotrophic bacteria grow in aquariums previously treated with prazi, this bacteria consumes prazi as a food source. By the third and fourth treatment, the bacteria is eating the prazi faster than you can add it.

The best treatment for Neo is screen for it with FW dips, and then if seen, hold the fish at half salinity (16 ppt) for 35 days.

Neo is more or less of a concern depending on the species; pomacanthus angels, pyramid butterflies, lookdowns and some others almost always have it. I rarely see it in wrasses or clownfish.

Jay

 

[Mariette]

Dipping weak fish can be an issue - in this case, you are dipping as a diagnostic tool, and the fish would be post quarantine, as healthy as they are going to be. I've given FW dips to literally thousands of fish, and yes, they will give you all sorts of stress signs, but only die if they are already moribund, or in some rare cases, if they are so heavily parasitized with flukes, that when the dip knocks the flukes off, the fish literally bleeds out.

The reason the prazi doesn't control Neobenedenia is that species of fluke is an egg layer and prazi doesn't affect the eggs. The eggs can take up to 30 days to hatch. Two prazi treatment will miss eggs. Four treatments, spaced 10 days apart also won't work - have you heard the term "prazi resistant fluke"? Well, it isn't the flukes that are resistant, what happens is that heterotrophic bacteria grow in aquariums previously treated with prazi, this bacteria consumes prazi as a food source. By the third and fourth treatment, the bacteria is eating the prazi faster than you can add it.

The best treatment for Neo is screen for it with FW dips, and then if seen, hold the fish at half salinity (16 ppt) for 35 days.

Neo is more or less of a concern depending on the species; pomacanthus angels, pyramid butterflies, lookdowns and some others almost always have it. I rarely see it in wrasses or clownfish.

Jay

That’s terrifying new information. It seems no matter how much research you do, you always miss something. Lovely. Thank you for the education

 

[ariellemermaid]

Neo is more or less of a concern depending on the species; pomacanthus angels, pyramid butterflies, lookdowns and some others almost always have it. I rarely see it in wrasses or clownfish.

For us it was cardinals that brought them in and killed 3, a royal gramma, and attacked a yellow tang before diagnosis. Thankfully all in QT.

While we’re on the topic of FW dips I think you recommended dechlorinated tap water rather than DI. So tap water, add the right amount of Prime, and done? Or is more careful attention to PH required?

 

[nereefpat]

The best treatment for Neo is screen for it with FW dips, and then if seen, hold the fish at half salinity (16 ppt) for 35 days.

Would half salinity for 35 days work as a prophylactic to cover all worms, or does it only work for that specific group of flukes? If so, that gives me some ideas ;Bookworm

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would half salinity for 35 days work as a prophylactic to cover all worms, or does it only work for that specific group of flukes? If so, that gives me some ideas ;Bookworm

Sorry, no. Hyposalinity works well on Neobenedenia, but not all flukes, so I always treat with prazi and then screen for Neo with a FW dip.
I do need to mention - Neobenedenia is a capsalid fluke. There are other capsalids that live in brackish water. I don’t see those often in the pet trade, but they are tough to treat. Some people resort to using trichlorfon, but I won’t die to its toxicity to humans.
Jay

 

[nereefpat]

Sorry, no. Hyposalinity works well on Neobenedenia, but not all flukes, so I always treat with prazi and then screen for Neo with a FW dip.
I do need to mention - Neobenedenia is a capsalid fluke. There are other capsalids that live in brackish water. I don’t see those often in the pet trade, but they are tough to treat. Some people resort to using trichlorfon, but I won’t die to its toxicity to humans.
Jay

Bummer. And thank you. Good info, as always.