How much flow for a 210 gallon? Icecap Gyre & Octo Pulse

[All_talk]

I posted this over in the Equipment forum but did get much response, so I figured some members here might have some input. Apologies for the cross post.

Currently planning and budgeting for an upgrade to a 210 gallon (standard dimensions 72" x 24" x 29") and I'm sorting out flow options. This will be a mixed reef with some SPS up high, LPS and some softies. I want quality pumps but I don't have an unlimited budget and I want to integrate pump control with my APEX, which has led me to the Icecap Gyre and the Octo Pulse.

My current thinking is two 4K Gyres on each end in a push pull configuration (one forward, one reverse), that switch morning to night creating ingoing and outgoing tide waves. And two Octo Pulse 4, one at each end (or near each end) to introduce randomness and eliminate dead spots through the aquascape. At first glance this seems like a lot of flow, but it is roughly similar to the flow I am running is my current tank (80X turnover), and obviously the pumps can be turned down.

This will be an in-wall build and I plan to have the wall cover (overlap) the ends of the tank a little so I can hide the pumps a bit. I would prefer not to have equipment on the back wall of the tank.

Too much, not enough, good plan, bad plan?


Gary

 

[paulgriffin971]

I posted this over in the Equipment forum but did get much response, so I figured some members here might have some input. Apologies for the cross post.

Currently planning and budgeting for an upgrade to a 210 gallon (standard dimensions 72" x 24" x 29") and I'm sorting out flow options. This will be a mixed reef with some SPS up high, LPS and some softies. I want quality pumps but I don't have an unlimited budget and I want to integrate pump control with my APEX, which has led me to the Icecap Gyre and the Octo Pulse.

My current thinking is two 4K Gyres on each end in a push pull configuration (one forward, one reverse), that switch morning to night creating ingoing and outgoing tide waves. And two Octo Pulse 4, one at each end (or near each end) to introduce randomness and eliminate dead spots through the aquascape. At first glance this seems like a lot of flow, but it is roughly similar to the flow I am running is my current tank (80X turnover), and obviously the pumps can be turned down.

This will be an in-wall build and I plan to have the wall cover (overlap) the ends of the tank a little so I can hide the pumps a bit. I would prefer not to have equipment on the back wall of the tank.

Too much, not enough, good plan, bad plan?


Gary

Good plan, but if I may--don't overlook the Neptune WAV 's for mid-to-larger tanks. They are the best for integration into an APEX. Period. They flow at over 4000GPH and don't have any powerbricks or multiple connections. Just a single cable from the powerhead directly to the APEX. They're adjustable, easily cleaned, flow a TON of water, and are highly controllable direcctly through the APEX app (think no separate/additional app needed)--gyre, tressles, random, lagoon, etc. I have 2 on the back wall of my 165 gallon Red Sea Reefer 625, and have been smiling ever since. A 2 foot deep by 2 foot tall aquarium, and at anything over 65% the sand bed gets torn up.

Another plus is that with two or more APEX energy bars, you'll be able to run 4 or more WAV pumps---all four corners of your tank--rear and sides, or along the back wall where you'll want them. Run a gyre part of the day from the ends of the tank, then run a random from the rear of the tank. Or better yet, combine both patterns for huge turbulence.

No bigger than Ecotech's and two WAV's are 1/2 the cost of a single MP. Don't have that "we don't need it because it's all controlled through APEX and WIFI now" 1990's knob controller and extra wiring either.

Disclaimer--I am not associated with Neptune in any way. I just think the WAV's are the best powerhead to date with the most smart technology thus far. I've tried gyres, MP's, and Neros, and the WAV's give me 10x more flow and do the same thing with fewer things in my tank. Exact same footprint, and far more adjustable too. No giant magnet on the outside sticking out that's not even strong enough.....the WAV's are rated up to 1" inch glass.

Check them out!

https://www.neptunesystems.com/wav/

 

[nbooks]

im in the same boat (tank technically i guess? lol).

Im doing twin syncra 9 returns with RFG's to handle most of the flow so was planning to use mp40's on the end since they truly win in the aesthetic department for me. I have nero 3's on my 40g cube now and like them except for the wire in tank.

the wav function looks great...but to me it just doesnt LOOK great...


EDIT: i will have a 2 year old octo pulse or sale in about a week.

 

[All_talk]

Paul, Thanks for the heads up on the WAVs, the price is certainly good. They would require me to upgrade to the current APEX, but I may be doing that for the new tank anyway. (I'm still on the classic, first gen black label.) I have read of some quality issue with the WAVs, what's your experience?

nbooks, My current tank follows your plan of heavy return flow. But for the big tank I'm planning, lower flow through the sump and fuge (separate pumps with targeted flow rates), maybe 5-7x total turnover. So I need more from the circulation pumps. And I agree, MPs have the cleanest in-tank profile, and like you, that is somewhat important to me. But I think I will want some ability to angle the pumps because they will be used to eliminate dead spots and create random turbulence. The gyres will handle the mass flow. I think the Octo Pulse has a better look than the WAV, but the cord in the tank is the major issue with a clean look, especially if the pumps are not close to the waterline.

 

[paulgriffin971]

Paul, Thanks for the heads up on the WAVs, the price is certainly good. They would require me to upgrade to the current APEX, but I may be doing that for the new tank anyway. (I'm still on the classic, first gen black label.) I have read of some quality issue with the WAVs, what's your experience?

nbooks, My current tank follows your plan of heavy return flow. But for the big tank I'm planning, lower flow through the sump and fuge (separate pumps with targeted flow rates), maybe 5-7x total turnover. So I need more from the circulation pumps. And I agree, MPs have the cleanest in-tank profile, and like you, that is somewhat important to me. But I think I will want some ability to angle the pumps because they will be used to eliminate dead spots and create random turbulence. The gyres will handle the mass flow. I think the Octo Pulse has a better look than the WAV, but the cord in the tank is the major issue with a clean look, especially if the pumps are not close to the waterline.

Don't quote me on this, but if trying to save money is a concern right now, I do believe the only thing you might need is just the energy bar as far as the Apex is concerned. The newer 2016 and later "orange" one's have the 24V sockets. The app and the apex "brain" should be able to stay the same. Again, I think that would work, but check with Neptune to make sure. Or, to test this theory out since you'll probably want another energy bar anyway, buy the extra bar and the WAV's, link your new bar to the old one, then install the WAV's. See if that works. If not, then you'll only need to upgrade the Apex package to the newer version and you'll already have the spare energy bar you'll probably want anyway, as well as the powerheads. Just an idea to consider.

As far as poor quality, I have no idea where that would come from. A lot of people probably heard it from someone who doesn't even own them themselves. Or, a salesperson talked them into the more expensive option. Common comments are usually: "I don't want a wire inside my tank that could disintegrate". Well you already have heaters, reactors, pumps, and a skimmer, so what gives? At least with a wire you have an extra bit of security in case the magnet on the outside fails or somehow gets knocked off--should it ever fail considering it's so strong.

Here's a perspective: When is the last time you've seen WAV's for sale used? They've been out for quite a while, so why is that? Yeah, probably because they ROCK! I have had 0 issues with mine, and again they flow far superior to anything I've had in my tank. I cover both sides of my tank with the WAV's and the middle section with the return pump generators. Intention being flow from top-rear to front-bottom, then back and up to the rear overflow. Catches more "crud" that way, and keeps the front view of the tank looking pristine.

There's not really an appearance difference between a MP and a WAV, aside that the WAV's are all internal, a little more square, and you don't have the magnetized dry side on the outside of the tank. Here's a couple shots of the one's I have on the rear of my reefer 625. They stick out about 4" from the back glass--about the same as the MP's; MP's being about 3.5". Obviously not as small as the Nero's.

Check them out you'll be glad you did. I was going for as little "extra" stuff in my cabinet, adjustability, and controlability. The WAV's achieved that with a single wire and no power bricks or extra control modules to clog up already limited space. Being able to control and view them and their flow rates through the Apex app was another plus. No other powerhead can flow as well, is as adjustable, doesn't drain so much power, and has the limited wiring as the WAV's do at a very reasonable price point. Again, I can get 2 WAV's for the price of just one MP and have more adjustability and more of what I'm after--more flow. My opinion only, but I consider them facts.

Apex has been around a long time, and many sized aquariums' consider it the best option for control. From major public institutions, to "smaller" tank reefers like us. That being said, I doubt Neptune would sell something that is not compatible, nor something they would solidly stand behind. I will knock Neptune for not being American made though---that's where Ecotech gets a slight tip of the hat. But just a little....

 

[cdnco2004]

I posted this over in the Equipment forum but did get much response, so I figured some members here might have some input. Apologies for the cross post.

Currently planning and budgeting for an upgrade to a 210 gallon (standard dimensions 72" x 24" x 29") and I'm sorting out flow options. This will be a mixed reef with some SPS up high, LPS and some softies. I want quality pumps but I don't have an unlimited budget and I want to integrate pump control with my APEX, which has led me to the Icecap Gyre and the Octo Pulse.

My current thinking is two 4K Gyres on each end in a push pull configuration (one forward, one reverse), that switch morning to night creating ingoing and outgoing tide waves. And two Octo Pulse 4, one at each end (or near each end) to introduce randomness and eliminate dead spots through the aquascape. At first glance this seems like a lot of flow, but it is roughly similar to the flow I am running is my current tank (80X turnover), and obviously the pumps can be turned down.

This will be an in-wall build and I plan to have the wall cover (overlap) the ends of the tank a little so I can hide the pumps a bit. I would prefer not to have equipment on the back wall of the tank.

Too much, not enough, good plan, bad plan?


Gary

I have same 210g as you mixed reef SPS up top. I also am doing a slower sump return and then I have 2 IceCap 4K as well as 2 Octo Pulse 4. Same setup you are doing. But instead of APEX I use Hydros WaveEngine 2 controller to control all 4 pumps. How are you liking your pump location setup? I have been trying to decide where to put the pulse 4's. Where do you have yours now and have you tried any other locations?

Thanks a lot for the reply in advance.