How old is my tank?

[sil40sx]

So, I started my first tank (40gallon) back in Dec 2015, then upgraded to a 75g mid April 2016, and then something came up and had to downgrade to a 25g tank first week of Aug 2016 :(

From all this ups and downs, I've been using same LR and LS (and most livestock appropriate to tank size). I always rinse the sand thoroughly for a good 30-45 mins with running water while mixing it with my hand, then final rinse with old tank water when transferring.

Question is, is my tank getting matured, or the clock resets every time I do the transfer?

 

[Tahoe61]

In my opinion you reset the clock each time you start up a new system. If you go by established rock then my tank is years old and actually was just started in March 2016. Heck I used LR from from 2007, but I can not say my new tank is almost 10 years old.

 

[sil40sx]

Oh my, that's not the answer I was hoping to hear :( LOL

Anyways, I may got a little lucky because my water parameters are stable to say the least.

 

[oneofmany]

In my opinion you reset the clock each time you start up a new system. If you go by established rock then my tank is years old and actually was just started in March 2016. Heck I used LR from from 2007, but I can not say my new tank is almost 10 years old.

+1

People break down their tanks all the time and trade in their rock to the LFS. If I happen to buy that rock the "mileage" so to say doesn't carry over. It's a whole new ball game.

 

[sil40sx]

The way I was imagining/understood a tank transfer was just like doing a major water change, plus taking the sandbed out and putting a new clean one. Because all LR and livestock are going to be the same, except a newly washed sand,. and a container (the tank).

Would the LR's capability of processing bio load/nutrients will greatly affected negatively? As for the SB, I've seen people adding sand to their bare bottom, and the worst happened to them is they got some algae bloom. Same as the other way around for the people who takes out their SB and going bare bottom.

Isn't the same principle/process when transferring to a different tank ?

PS: I hope I don't sound like debating, or insulting someone's intelligence,. its just English is not my native language. And I would just want to learn.

 

[Tahoe61]

Even if you move over seeded filtration mediums such as foam, floss and sponge, it's still not an new system. I see no benefit in considering a new tank an established tank regardless of how much rock, sand you move the over to the new tank, always expect a cycle. Always test parameters prior to adding live stock.

 

[CodyRVA]

I think I disagree. I broke down my 80 and moved it 4 hours and set it back up. Very likey I had a mini cycle, although I used a bacteria supplement to make up for my losses, but it's been back up and running for 2 months with no issue. Prior to, the tank was about a year old. It's probably not nearly as stable as it was when I tore it down, but it's by no means a fresh start. Somewhere in between?

Maybe a better way to phrase it is you're stunting or pausing the stability which takes time to recover and works against the true maturity of the system, but doesn't qualify as starting over? Two tanks: one broken down once per year vs the other that has remained from day one, after five years one tank is truly 5 years old, the other... ?

I mean, I broke down the system, bucketed and coolered everything with temp and O2 control then set it all back up. What did I lose... Besides bacteria population? You'd think the tank would exhibit side affects right? Just a few thoughts, good topic!

 

[Untamedrose]

Oh my, that's not the answer I was hoping to hear :( LOL

Anyways, I may got a little lucky because my water parameters are stable to say the least.

Why are you asking? Seems like thats the real issue.

 

[sil40sx]

Thanks for all the comments. Keep them coming, the more I hear, the more I learn.

@Untamedrose, because I'm confused, and want to hear it from experienced people. I don't know if I already consider my tank established or not. - it's been almost 9 months since I had the rocks and sand, with three tanks. I don't know if I can successfully keep an anemone, or a high end SPS. - I hope it makes sense.

 

[Untamedrose]

HA I knew it was an anemone Q! lol ;)

The whole cant keep an anemone until the "6 month thing" is a matter of experience and stability of the tank. I dont think is a bad general rule of thumb to have floating around... to discourage newbies from plopping in an anemone into a brand spanking new tank. But doesnt mean It cant possibly be done at 2 months, 3 months... (I've done it) NOR does it mean that just cause your tank is Over 6 months is an anemone going to be ok in there.

If you water quality is good, stable and you think your ready for it.... think you will most likely be fine.
Will note get a HEALTHY anemone not one just split/cut(actually avoid cut ones if you can IMO), not bleached, no short arms, know species your getting.

and it WILL be a PITA that you are SURE is going to die for the first few weeks... kinda like a newborn except the newborn shrivels up a tenth it's size every other hour just to worry you. It will most likely make it, and even out where it only does that ever few weeks. If it Cant hold onto the rock, thats an issue.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I think I disagree. I broke down my 80 and moved it 4 hours and set it back up. Very likey I had a mini cycle, although I used a bacteria supplement to make up for my losses, but it's been back up and running for 2 months with no issue. Prior to, the tank was about a year old. It's probably not nearly as stable as it was when I tore it down, but it's by no means a fresh start. Somewhere in between?

Maybe a better way to phrase it is you're stunting or pausing the stability which takes time to recover and works against the true maturity of the system, but doesn't qualify as starting over? Two tanks: one broken down once per year vs the other that has remained from day one, after five years one tank is truly 5 years old, the other... ?

I mean, I broke down the system, bucketed and coolered everything with temp and O2 control then set it all back up. What did I lose... Besides bacteria population? You'd think the tank would exhibit side affects right? Just a few thoughts, good topic!

I see some stupid good luck with coral with the SD skip cycle method down here. They or we I should say don't know it's happening. Old live rock. Watch the Po and I have had only one "bad rock" in that time BTW.
But. Of course you get some settling. Stirring up poop , ph stuff, And some ugly. YeaToss the sand ug. Nasty. For so many reasons scientifically beyond just the smell.

But I have never had Dino's. Or diatoms. My ugly was nothing like I see here some days.
I did not own a skimmer the first four years of my reef life.
I had to do a dry cycle just to see what would happen. It was not fun. I bailed out and tossed in a bunch of old stuff from the old Tank to fix it. I'm about to do that again but this time. I took pictures.
Weird right?

No I haven't been around Reefing long. But It makes it a very good question.
What is happening in my 30 cube 6 months old should not be. Unless it's seven or eight.

Thanks for all the comments. Keep them coming, the more I hear, the more I learn.

It's a very very good question.

@Untamedrose, because I'm confused, and want to hear it from experienced people. I don't know if I already consider my tank established or not. - it's been almost 9 months since I had the rocks and sand, with three tanks. I don't know if I can successfully keep an anemone, or a high end SPS. - I hope it makes sense.

It does. Get cheap SPS. The green slimer seems hard to kill. My tyree ponapee is bullet proof.
With what we do with bacteria from a bottle now it makes it a very interesting question.
As always go slow. And don't expect success. It's an experiment.


Tahoe. Why do you think it does not count.
If it has been alive that long is it not that old.
Honest question.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Thanks for all the comments. Keep them coming, the more I hear, the more I learn.

@Untamedrose, because I'm confused, and want to hear it from experienced people. I don't know if I already consider my tank established or not. - it's been almost 9 months since I had the rocks and sand, with three tanks. I don't know if I can successfully keep an anemone, or a high end SPS. - I hope it makes sense.

Yea. It's an experiment. Good luck. you got the money to lose. Try it.
My first nem. Curled up into a ball and died. That was old ish rock. 9 mo. Ten mabey. Did I blow acclimation? Not mature dunno.
But. Every tank is different.

 

[bif24701]

So, I started my first tank (40gallon) back in Dec 2015, then upgraded to a 75g mid April 2016, and then something came up and had to downgrade to a 25g tank first week of Aug 2016 :(

From all this ups and downs, I've been using same LR and LS (and most livestock appropriate to tank size). I always rinse the sand thoroughly for a good 30-45 mins with running water while mixing it with my hand, then final rinse with old tank water when transferring.

Question is, is my tank getting matured, or the clock resets every time I do the transfer?

I've don't something similar. 75 in Feb, then 180 in May, then moved and added a larger sump and skimmer. Each time I retained all rock and sand. I kept all the rock live in a holding tank when I moved. I can say 100% it basically reset the clock. Other than having to cycle I got all the normal new tank phases again. Though they seemed to pass more quickly. I certainly wouldn't consider my system any more mature really.

 

[Tahoe61]

Tahoe. Why do you think it does not count.
If it has been alive that long is it not that old.
Honest question.

First and foremost it's a new tank, the basic premise.

Also as mentioned previously new tanks often go through the ugly stages, algae blooms, diatoms.
We often refer to cycles as presence and absence of ammonia, in my mind a cycle is also many things we do not test for.

It's a subjective title if you start to assign variables to a tanks age, "well my sand if 9.6 months old and the rock is 2 years, so which is it a 2 year old tank or a 9.6 month old tank?

 

[CodyRVA]

"well my sand if 9.6 months old and the rock is 2 years, so which is it a 2 year old tank or a 9.6 month old tank?

Valid point, but that's also why I don't think you can completely dismiss the maturity of the system as a start over. Agreed, just because one component of your system may be 2 years old, by no means can you assume it is the same maturity level of an actual 2 year old system. Doesn't mean it's a day 1 system either.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Agreed and understood.
It's likely best to describe a tank as six months but with twent year old established rock.
It's a clearer definition of what the tank is.

 

[Tahoe61]

Not all my rock are the same age, I just added a larger new piece that was dry.

Are we only referring to those mediums that have bacterial growth? Filtration? At what age is the biological filter developed enough to handle live stock?

Does the presence of algae indicate the age of tank, does the presence of ammonia indicate a tanks age, no both can be found in well establisheds tanks under stress as well as new tanks, and the reverse is true.

Seems logical that one constant be applied, the time at which water, rock, sand and filtration are in place.

 

[sil40sx]

This is a good read,. I'm learning a lot hearing from different perspectives and experience. I appreciate everyone's input!

@Tahoe61 - I always check my water parameters as s0on as Im done transferring,. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are all zero. Po4 usually increase a few, like 0.04 to 0.11.

And the new tank cycle I see is diatom on maybe 20-30% on my sandbed, then it goes away 2-3 weeks after.

@Untamedrose, hahaha it is just one of my concern. LOL (please see my reply below as well)

@saltyfilmfolks, I tried a BTA, had it for 3 months. It looked perfect for maybe 2-3 weeks (see pic below), then started to shrink gradually. I was feeding it at least once a week, and only moved location in the tank maybe once. I also got a beginner SPS, a birdsnest 5 months ago, and it grows like crazy. Just last week I acquired a monti digitata and a monti spongodes. I want to test and see If they will grow and not die, then maybe I can start getting real SPS (acroporas).

 

[CodyRVA]

I think this discussion emulates the very nature of a fish tank. It's a sample so to speak of a natural environment in which we control. In turn, does the age really matter? I agree, throwing a new dead rock into an existing system doesn't make that new rock of equal value; it doesn't take value from the existing rock either, IMO. The maturity of a system is really only relevant to stability and having the ability to house specific creatures. If fish tank A is 5 years old it can house say an expensive chalice. Tank B is 10 years old and it can house the same chalice. That's a 5 year spread that has seemingly no value regarding livestock in this example. So in turn... What are we debating haha? Just my two cents, cheers!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

yea I think we all are. Thank you for bringing it up. Chemistry aside, as my first one just strait up melted, do you have enough light.

Are we only referring to those mediums that have bacterial growth? Filtration? At what age is the biological filter developed enough to handle live stock?

This is I think, digging into the old reefer adage, "ACRO only in a Mature tank" thing. Many want to ignore, Ive seen proof of it. So what is the magic there, or really in fact what is the science there. I do believe it is in part bacterial, but also chemical as newer rock "buffers" at a different rate.

What are we debating haha?

nothin, nuthin at all, I think, jus chewin the fat:)