How safe are coral dips and can they cause cancer?

[Sharis100]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/jury-f...iller-caused-mans-cancer-11553030151?mod=e2fb

Round up found to cause cancer, what does this mean for other similar products?

 

[James M]

That’s weed killer

 

[Sharis100]

Yes made by Bayer and supposedly safe for human use. Just curious if other products like insecticides will also eventually be found to cause cancer in humans as well?

 

[Dkeller_nc]

It is highly unlikely that glyphosate is carcinogenic. But "coral dip" is generic term for a widely varying number of compounds, so you'll have to be a lot more specific.

 

[Sharis100]

For example using Bayer Complete Insecticide off book for coral dips- we know that the active ingredient in that is a neurotoxin. Or products like Revive or CoralRx? Not talking about the strictly iodine based products like Lugols?

 

[Tamberav]

I would think it's pretty much a given most pesticides cause cancer. Perhaps indirectly? A lot of things we are exposed to can cause cancer. It just depends on amount of exposure and our own genetic makeup.

It would be best to just use gloves and practice saftey when handling dips and corals. Who is to say the toxins in coral can't cause cancer if a person was repeatidly exposed?

Idk but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

For example using Bayer Complete Insecticide off book for coral dips- we know that the active ingredient in that is a neurotoxin. Or products like Revive or CoralRx? Not talking about the strictly iodine based products like Lugols?

Beta cyfluthrin and Imdacloprid are both insect neurotoxins, yes. Otherwise they wouldn't work. But the LD50 for mammals is gigantic; they are not neurotoxins in classic sense of the word, unlike actual neurotoxins such as the "V" series chemical weapons.

 

[Sharis100]

It is highly unlikely that glyphosate is carcinogenic. But "coral dip" is generic term for a widely varying number of compounds, so you'll have to be a lot more specific.

Glyphosate is exactly the chemical supposedly safe that has 11,200 folks are alleging caused cancer even though the EPA said it is safe???

 

[Dkeller_nc]

There are specific reasons that glyphosate is extremely unlikely to be carcinogenic, a mutagen or a teratogen, but it would take a great deal of biochemistry to explain why.

What you are reading is an epidemiological inevitability - one in about 3 people will eventually die of cancer. If we lived long enough (i.e., our hearts didn't give out), it's almost certain that everyone would die of cancer. Just because you used RoundUp at one time or another and now have cancer does not mean that it's carcinogenic.

 

[Sharis100]

Beta cyfluthrin and Imdacloprid are both insect neurotoxins, yes. Otherwise they wouldn't work. But the LD50 for mammals is gigantic; they are not neurotoxins in classic sense of the word, unlike actual neurotoxins such as the "V" series chemical weapons.

I get that, and I don’t pretend to know the answers. Just raising the question and concerned about long term safety of the use of these toxins for coral dipping to the hobbiest or even to those folks that sell coral for a living. How much is too much use over the long term and can the effective be cumulative in humans? And do the manufacturers of coral dips test for these long term safety studies in humans? Just curious- and are there non- toxic alternatives to dip with other than Lugol type Solutions?

 

[redfishbluefish]

Pretty much everything, in the right concentration and exposure, will cause for cancer proliferation. Mouth wash, nail polish remover, VOC's in paints, milk, etc.

And yes, there currently is a class action on glyphosate (RoundUp)....that has nothing to do with Bayer insecticides.

The subject insecticide used as a coral dip contains variants of Tobacco tea and chrysanthemum extract (pyrethrin derivative)....yes, the flower, mums! I handle with care, not to get it directly on me, especially in concentrated form, but otherwise, I'm more concerned when I handle muriatic acid. FYI, and I'm a chemist.

 

[Sharis100]

There are specific reasons that glyphosate is extremely unlikely to be carcinogenic, a mutagen or a teratogen, but it would take a great deal of biochemistry to explain why.

What you are reading is an epidemiological inevitability - one in about 3 people will eventually die of cancer. If we lived long enough (i.e., our hearts didn't give out), it's almost certain that everyone would die of cancer. Just because you used RoundUp at one time or another and now have cancer does not mean that it's carcinogenic.

Actually, the plaintiff in this case was quite compelling in proving the carcinogenic effect not based on epidemiological inevitability. There are actually multiple cases coming up with a lot of scientific data backing these carcinogenic claims up and trying to determine if the manufacturers knew or should have known of this outcome. Since we use supposedly safe neurotoxins to dip, just wondering what this will mean when future safety studies on these sorts of chemicals are done over long term periods, and is there a safer way to handle the coral dipping part of our hobby? Just in case....

 

[Sharis100]

Pretty much everything, in the right concentration and exposure, will cause for cancer proliferation. Mouth wash, nail polish remover, VOC's in paints, milk, etc.

And yes, there currently is a class action on glyphosate (RoundUp)....that has nothing to do with Bayer insecticides.

The subject insecticide used as a coral dip contains variants of Tobacco tea and chrysanthemum extract (pyrethrin derivative)....yes, the flower, mums! I handle with care, not to get it directly on me, especially in concentrated form, but otherwise, I'm more concerned when I handle muriatic acid. FYI, and I'm a chemist.

What alternatives do you recommend for dipping? And I too use gloves and take great care with these dips, but Would like to know alternatives if any?

 

[Gareth elliott]

I do not use bayer for personal reasons(bee keeper, its extraordinarily toxic to bees so i dont use anymore).

Dips i currently use are
Dittol at .3ml per lt of water concentration(this is a human topical antiseptic cleanser)

And seachem reef dip(iodine based)

 

[Sharis100]

I do not use bayer for personal reasons(bee keeper, its extraordinarily toxic to bees so i dont use anymore).

Dips i currently use are
Dittol at .3ml per lt of water concentration(this is a human topical antiseptic cleanser)

And seachem reef dip(iodine based)

Thank you for the suggestion of dittol, did not know you could use that.

 

[Sod Buster]

I'm a farmer and spray and mix glyphosate. The concentration I handle would scare you, 1 gallon concentrate to 250 gallons of water. Little stronger than you can get at lowes. It is basically a salt to be honest. Be careful mixing up your next water change. It is a couple doctors that "think" it could cause cancer, with 100's of scientist's proving the unlikelyness. Please don't use it, as its homeowners misuse that has developed RUP resistant weed strains. Thankfully the chemists come up w/ new chemicals for us to use.

 

[Sharis100]

I'm a farmer and spray and mix glyphosate. The concentration I handle would scare you, 1 gallon concentrate to 250 gallons of water. Little stronger than you can get at lowes. It is basically a salt to be honest. Be careful mixing up your next water change. It is a couple doctors that "think" it could cause cancer, with 100's of scientist's proving the unlikelyness. Please don't use it, as its homeowners misuse that has developed RUP resistant weed strains. Thankfully the chemists come up w/ new chemicals for us to use.

I would like to leave as minimal impact on the environment as possible while participating in this hobby. So, avoiding things that could leave an unfortunate footprint and instead trying to find alternatives is what I strive towards. Also, avoiding things that could harm the corals, fish, and myself or my family .

 

[Gonebad395]

To the op yes I’m sure it’s compounds somewhere causes cancer. Just like the sun and about another 1000 things pretty soon and according to California everything may cause cancer. Unless you are dipping your hands in it for super long periods of time like soaking I would highly doubt you’ll be affected. I wouldn’t sweat it to much I’m not sure if you are worried about it but if you are I would relax there are so many great things to enjoy and not worry about in the end.

Ps not judging just saying.

 

[lapin]

Causing cancer or causing harm? Most substances that kill, will in some way alter your body if exposed to them. Be it pesticides, antibiotics ect... Could be permanent or temporary. Time will tell.

 

[Sod Buster]

I agree. Best to keep your nerve agents in a high cupboard. Using Bayer to dip corals is actually illegal as it's "off" label use. Soil and plant biology is just as interesting as a reef tank, just not as pretty in my living room. I take care of my dirt that I own, as it pays my bills. I wish everyone would. As far as coral dips, don't get any on your skin, dilute in water when you are done enough to not effect creatures and dispose of. Happy reefing to all.