How to increase nitrate and not phosphate

[howaboutme]

Thanks for the reply. That was also my take on the increase of K by dosing Spectracide (which is what I am also using) My situation may slight differ in that I was dosing carbon and my NO3 and PO4 became out of balance in reference to the Redfield ratio. My corals were suffering widespread STN from the bases and after making some changes in my husbandry I think I narrowed it down to the lack of NO3. I've run GFO in the past with poor results, plus I really can't stand changing out the media... it's messy and expensive. My line of thinking was that if I can continue to dose vinegar and maintain NO3 with the Spectracide and then I can use the carbon dosing as a way to keep my PO4 consistently low. I've seen a lot of examples of people doing this temporarily but I have yet to run across an example of someone doing this long term. Before I resorted to dosing KN03 I tried everything from increasing feeding, adding fish, and even removing my DSB from the refugium to bring the nitrates to a measurable level. KNO3 dosing has been extremely successful in the short time that I have been doing it, and I think it may be my answer to the periodic bouts of STN I have experienced.

Lake Worth is where it's at! lol. We moved here after becoming tired of the South Florida way of doing things(i.e. rude neighbors and crazy drivers)... it seems like it's just far enough away from all the hubbub to actually find nice people We love it here!

Although I don't personally, I have heard of people carbon dosing in conjunction w/ NO3 dosing to keep in line w/the redfield ratio. I wouldn't feed heavy to increase NO3 because you are increasing PO4 at the same time.

How old is your tank? Did you start out w/ all base rock?

You must live in western Lake Worth then...near 441?

 

[FlightRisk]

The tank is about 3 years old with some of the original rock work. I obtained some live rock from Tampa Bay farmers and the rest was "live" rock from an LFS down south that in hindsight probably had just put some dry rock into a bin and called it live. Whether or not I would call it base rock... I'm not that well versed the different rocks, but I will say that one type, say 50% of the tank is the porous limestone type and the other 50% is more dense and probably what you would consider base rock. The tank was originally set up in my apartment and when we bought our house in West Lake Worth we moved the set up about a year ago. It's a standard 90 with ATI 6 bulb T5 a SWC 180 skimmer and carbon dosing. The tank was doing extremely well after the move as I had taken that opportunity to remove more than half of our rock "wall" setup we started the tank with. This opened all of the areas that were previously getting a large amount of detritus build up. The growth I was experiencing was absolutely explosive post move. Towards the end of the growth spurt I was dosing almost 125ML a day of CA and ALK respectively, just to keep up. Then two things happened... I was basing my dosing off of what was apparently a bad(expired) ALK test kit and I changed my RO/DI filters to a carbon block that couldn't keep up with the chloramines. The alkalinity I could test for: I was keeping it at 14DKH! The chloramines... the jury is still out on that one as I honestly never put in the effort to test for it.

Of course both of these were unintentional but nonetheless I literally lost all but 3 SPS pieces. Fast forward a year and I've made some changes with RO/DI filters and by cleaning and simplifying my tank. I removed my UV, GFO, Activated Carbon, and my DSB over a period of several months and monitored the changes for each removal. Finally in December I started dosing vinegar and am now up to 34ml a day. All the while, the few pieces of SPS I had purchased were growing so I decided to take a jump back in and started adding more and more pieces. Come February... STN from the bases. The only thing that I can think of now is the balance of NO3 and PO4... Like I said in my first post, I have only recently (3 weeks) started dosing KNO3 but so far I think it's the answer.

Overall tank parameters with KNO3 dosing
Sg 1.026-1.027
NO3 .25 - 2.5 ppm
PO4 .02 - .06
Ph 7.99 - 8.25
Mg1280-1325
New RO/DI from BRS is the 5 stage chloramine special pumping out 0 TDS for all top off water and water changes.
Red Sea Salt Blue bucket.

By the way... I'm sorry to have revived and hijacked this thread... especially being new to Reef2Reef. Mods, should I start a new thread or is it acceptable to continue?

 

[howaboutme]

Honestly, I'm not sure the NO3/PO4 balance is causing your STN. STN or RTN is usually caused by Alk swings. Are you dosing by hand or doser spread out throughout the day? What test kit are you using?

Is it just your SPS having trouble? Have you checked for bugs or FW causing recession?

FYI, a 1 micron or less carbon filter will take out chloramines, alleviating the need for an extra stage. I would never use anything about a 1 micron sediment or carbon. Your RO membrane will thank you later.

 

[FlightRisk]

Honestly, I'm not sure the NO3/PO4 balance is causing your STN. STN or RTN is usually caused by Alk swings. Are you dosing by hand or doser spread out throughout the day? What test kit are you using?

Is it just your SPS having trouble? Have you checked for bugs or FW causing recession?

FYI, a 1 micron or less carbon filter will take out chloramines, alleviating the need for an extra stage. I would never use anything about a 1 micron sediment or carbon. Your RO membrane will thank you later.

Through the worst of my troubles I was having a hard time even keeping LPS in a healthy state. I have treated for red bugs in the past and have since become very vigilant. As far as AEFW, I haven't spotted any however I know that they are masters of camouflage.

As far as dosing I have the ALK and CA spread out over 24 hours controlled by an APEX. In my investigation I went so far as to purge even the tiniest bubble from the dosing lines to ensure accurate dosage as well as replace the dosing flex tubes (BRS doser) with fresh rubber.

I've run poly-filter to passively test for/remove heavy metals like Copper with no conclusive results. I am by no means out of the woods on the problem just seems to be an improvement as of late, the majority of the corals were glued or fragged and I have seen 95% of them encrusting over their wounds.

I appreciate any pointers as I have still yet to have that momentous epiphany I am so desperately seeking :crazy:

 

[Keithcorals]

My avatar is my sexy corals Orange passion acro and on a good day under blue light it looks just like the pic. That's the problem with SPS they can change color over night. And I don't consider myself a southern Floridian. I prefer central Florida (Sarasota) but we are in Miami until my wife is done with law school. I've had some good results with amino acids. My nitrate with salifert reads >0.2 and my phophate with Hanna phosphors checker is 0.000 the only problem I have is if my alk gets over 8 my color start to go and over 9 things start to die.

 

[Griff]

Following along. I currently have PO4 at .06 and NO3 at 0. Using Hannah low range and Red Sea test kit 0-5ppm.

I was feeding quite heavy to raise NO3 and PO4 but the only thing that went up was the PO4. Have a little cyano and hair algea but I picked out the HA and vacuumed the sandbed. It hasn't come back to bad but I pick the HA a little every night. Ordered some additional clean up crew to deal with it as I started light on the cleanup crew several months ago.

My biggest concern is the Sps. Some are losing brightness and browning a little while others look fine and then some are bleaching a little.

Currently manually dosing. Have an apex with dosing pump but haven't had time to set it up yet. Frags are also on magnetic frag racks so probably aren't getting the light they need.

 

[joeyhatch11]

Following along. I currently have PO4 at .06 and NO3 at 0. Using Hannah low range and Red Sea test kit 0-5ppm.

I was feeding quite heavy to raise NO3 and PO4 but the only thing that went up was the PO4. Have a little cyano and hair algea but I picked out the HA and vacuumed the sandbed. It hasn't come back to bad but I pick the HA a little every night. Ordered some additional clean up crew to deal with it as I started light on the cleanup crew several months ago.

My biggest concern is the Sps. Some are losing brightness and browning a little while others look fine and then some are bleaching a little.

Currently manually dosing. Have an apex with dosing pump but haven't had time to set it up yet. Frags are also on magnetic frag racks so probably aren't getting the light they need.

You and I are in the same boat. Nitrates 0 while phosphates are at a .04. I've been dosing the KZ Coral Program on the 220 and adding additional amino acids. Recently I've seen some cyano forming so I've cut back on the AA dosing and ordered some Sodium Nitrate to bring that up. From all I've read and been told, it should bring back that POP to my sps. My 220 is 85% sps. So I'm looking forward to the results from the Sodium Nitrate dosing. Adding 1 tablespoon to 2 cups of RODI and dosing 10ml and will test every other day to see the increase. Aiming for 5ppm with my nitrates.

 

[spscrackhead]

Stump remover has been effective for me. Make sure to keep the propper ratio of no3 to po4.

 

[scottrotton]

Also having the same issue so tagging along, i message red sea about this as im using there system here is the response

----------------------------
My Message

Hi Im having a few issues using the reef care program, I am using the following Lighting 2 x AI 26 HD Lighting Par = 300 top of tank 100 bottom of tank

Tank Demnsions = 120 CM x 45 x 45
Total System Volume = 300 liters
Alk = 7.8 Mag = 1290
Calc = 450 Temp = 25C
PH 7.8 morning – 8 Evening
Nitrate 0-1 ppm
Phosphate 0.027 (hanna test kit)

Red Sea salt Red Sea Colours ( 1ml each per day)
Red Sea nopox (3ml Per day)
Red Sea Energy a & b (10 ml each per day)
Red Sea foundation

My tank has been running for about 6 months now, my Corals have slow growth rate and are bleaching, I cant seem to get my nitrate and phosphates in balance, I believe it must be something to do with low nitrate in my tank. What do you think the problem is or anything wrong with my params?


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Red Sea reply

Hi Scott, whilst granted your No3 and Po4 are not in sync this is unlikely to be the issue behind your SPS stripping, if both these values were zero then possibly, your parameters are nearly matched to Red Sea salt so there doesn't appear to be an issue there, can you test Potassium and Iodine ? can you post some pictures of the bleaching please ? also information of flow and light settings, light issues could possibly be a cause.
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[scottrotton]

Anyone got a before and after pictures when dosing nitrate?

 

[Greatreefer]

I have an SPS tank with zero nitrate and 0.04 phosphate by Red Sea Pro. I see some of my acros bleached. I think hey are starving. Any ways to increase nitrate without raising phosphate. Feeding more may raise both.

( unrelated question).. do you happen to have cyano bacteria growing in your system?

 

[kevin318]

More fish is always a good thing. Well, depending on how many you have now and size of tank. Also I personally have noticed that feeding flake food and not so much meaty like PE and brine, I get great colors and not the phos. Also maybe look into Ammino fatty acid supp. Turn of the skimmer for a while and add to food or direct to tank. I have had some good results with that alone. Last would be brightwells color up. Same thing just not so concentraded. GL

This is a great answer, I have the same issue. I struggle with getting my nitrates to raise. 0.82 this morning.....LOL I also struggle with Phosphate as I try to raise my nitrates, thanks for the tip with flake food.

 

[NorthBayReefer]

I've used cal-mag 2-0-0 liquid by bontanicare - its a mix of calcium and magnesium nitrate + .1% chelated iron. Clean and metals free. Picked it up at the hydroponics store - very inexpensive.
Just to give you a feel for it - 15 mls in 90 gallons gave me about a 10ppm nitrate - I use this for new tanks which have cycled but have issues with cyano.

Fot jumpstarting tanks - ammonium-nitrate or ammonium chloride.

The best form for feeding depends on the denitrification system you use. I've used urea but now prefer ammonium nitrate. Its simpler and my phosphate removal system requires a steady source of nitrate to function effectively. Ammonium chloride would be another choice if you don't want the nitrate,

Upping the nitrate is easy and low risk. Corals will take it up but not as readily as ammonia. If your battling cyano and phospahtes are otherwise in control, adding nitrate is a neat trick.
Dosing Ammonium is reserved for idiots - and I won't help you do it. Its ok if I kill my tank - I want no part of killing yours.

I've been getting nice results, but ammonium dosing requires a very robust denitrification system and pulasile dosing at levels below what our test kits can measure. -

I picked up that Cal-Mag Plus and loved it until I found it had arsenic in it. Tomato food now...