Hey, so GHA is taking over my nanocube tank. It's been setup for about two months now with a premium snowflake clown and some soft corals. The water parameters are good I don't understand why there's so much GHA. Before setting it up I used tap water because i didn't know about using rodi water and so I assumed GHA was growing because of phosphates. But then I tested my water and there was no signs of phosphates in the water. Could the phosphates be coming from the live rock? I bought some live rock from an already established saltwater tank. What can I do about this? Thankyou!!
HOW TO REMOVE GREEN HAIR ALGAE
- Thread starter colintruong
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The phosphate is being taken up by the GHA so fast that you will not be able to read it on your test kit. Its all a balance of food and fish waste goes into a tank. An with out the devices to remove the phosphate fast enough hair algae will grow. A skimmer and and algae scrubber will give you the natural tool to stop GHA with out resorting to chemicals or absorbing compounds.The problem with chemicals and absorbing compounds they be com exhausted and stop working way before people change them out. While a skimmer and algae scrubber just keep on working.
dbrewsky
Active Member
root cause is nutrients are being utilized before you have a chance to test for them as @reefwiser mentioned.
Best strategy to start with is as follows:
1 -limit food input and ensure any food being added is getting eaten
2- start doing large water changes frequently. I would do one 40% water change wait a day and repeat for 3 or 4 water changes to help reset parameters and weaken the existing hair algae.
3- remove as much hair algae by hand as possible, the water changes should help weaken the algae making it easier to remove.
4- implement gfo or other phosphate binding media slowly over time to help ensure that the phosphate isnt being absorbed by the alage first.
@melev has a good video on hair algae control as well. He uses lanthanum chloride for the phosphate binding, but the same basic strategy applies here as well -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xilqKzoOgBE
Best strategy to start with is as follows:
1 -limit food input and ensure any food being added is getting eaten
2- start doing large water changes frequently. I would do one 40% water change wait a day and repeat for 3 or 4 water changes to help reset parameters and weaken the existing hair algae.
3- remove as much hair algae by hand as possible, the water changes should help weaken the algae making it easier to remove.
4- implement gfo or other phosphate binding media slowly over time to help ensure that the phosphate isnt being absorbed by the alage first.
@melev has a good video on hair algae control as well. He uses lanthanum chloride for the phosphate binding, but the same basic strategy applies here as well -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xilqKzoOgBE
Reefwiser, we have to correct algae scrubber tanks all the time that wont remove GHA, you are writing as if its case closed. The actuality of GHA is it may or may not be affected by nutrient controls, we have tons of examples where tanks were started perfectly, ran too bright whites LEDs, and got GHA
This often becomes an endless technique debate but theres one easy way to test it, start a big GHA correction thread where you simply run nutrient controls.
This often becomes an endless technique debate but theres one easy way to test it, start a big GHA correction thread where you simply run nutrient controls.
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What works in our tanks doesn't transfer easily out into cyberspace for others to employ, that's a key factor IMO. for any claimed method of algae control you'll have several people earnestly running X method and not getting results, making and running large cure threads where people tell you live time if your method works brings those out of the woodwork.
The reason more than one option exists is because some options listed as for-sure cures don't work, and the keepers press on trying things.
oftentimes a truly customized approach is needed, we need full tank pics here.
Just like nutrient controls chemical burners wont cure every tank, but you'd be surprised how powerful these two options are when wielded together~
per tank pics, if we see a bunch of white rocks no coralline low coral loading, that bright reflective surface wants to colonize with algae simply because that's an early colonizer and not much nutrients are needed. Contrast that to a full tank shot that shows a blackened aged sandbed, full coralline rocks, too many fish and a high bioload system, that indeed may have nutrient sinks to deal with.
More detail is needed to ID gha needs tank to tank
I truly think that having nutrients in acceptable ranges is critical, but all past that is humans doing what grazers were selected to do long ago and matching grazers -missing- are often the cause of GHA in our tanks. myriad studies show that any healthy reef grows GHA if you just box off areas where grazers can't get to, but sunlight still shines. Obvious nutrient issues discovered in custom approaches clearly need to be offset, agreed.
The reason more than one option exists is because some options listed as for-sure cures don't work, and the keepers press on trying things.
oftentimes a truly customized approach is needed, we need full tank pics here.
Just like nutrient controls chemical burners wont cure every tank, but you'd be surprised how powerful these two options are when wielded together~
per tank pics, if we see a bunch of white rocks no coralline low coral loading, that bright reflective surface wants to colonize with algae simply because that's an early colonizer and not much nutrients are needed. Contrast that to a full tank shot that shows a blackened aged sandbed, full coralline rocks, too many fish and a high bioload system, that indeed may have nutrient sinks to deal with.
More detail is needed to ID gha needs tank to tank
I truly think that having nutrients in acceptable ranges is critical, but all past that is humans doing what grazers were selected to do long ago and matching grazers -missing- are often the cause of GHA in our tanks. myriad studies show that any healthy reef grows GHA if you just box off areas where grazers can't get to, but sunlight still shines. Obvious nutrient issues discovered in custom approaches clearly need to be offset, agreed.
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SantaMonicaHelp
Valuable Member
I hope this bit of info about Nutrient Expo might be helpful:
Nutrient Export
What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.
So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients comes from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.
Then, the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on the rocks consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks from when they were new. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crews, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
So whenever you have algae or cyano "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients out of your tank compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then after a year, there is a problem).
So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals
~SF
Nutrient Export
What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.
So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients comes from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.
Then, the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on the rocks consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks from when they were new. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crews, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.
So whenever you have algae or cyano "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients out of your tank compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then after a year, there is a problem).
So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals
~SF
Bugger
Well-Known Member
I barely feed like 40 pellets a day and still have algae issues. One feeding for the fish a day. What your suggesting in impossible. Many people don't have algae issues because there is no algae in the tank. Once infested, limiting food still does not rid the tank of it
fully true. our peroxide burner threads are made up of many of those types of tanks, they are pics before and after from the seekers who posted w issues. not all tanks can be fixed w peroxide, and not all tanks w respond to algae filters simple fact. it creates a need for both systems.
Nutrient controls are promised to work in articles that cite ocean studies, from all kinds of nutrient adsorbent media including plant arrangements, and when it doesn't those peoples posts just fall to the wayside and they have to look elsewhere.
for sure its wise to use plant arrangements or other methods to keep nutrient params within goal ranges. what I hope changes for the hobby is the knowledge that being algae free is not all about nutrient controls, there's a direct action factor missing from 100% of the problem algae tanks currently posting who farmed it on purpose in the first place. catching up is darn hard in some cases, and the nutrients-only camp is constantly advising to leave algae on purpose in a DT, then build up something to attack the water to starve it, universally a nutrients-only proponent will tell a poster that to act on the algae directly is a bandaid...not the case, it can save your tank and we document that in droves.
we've found that in most cases you simply kill the algae in the DT and hold course with preventatives to really turn a large portion of problem tanks around. I feed abundantly and don't mind water changes to offset, plant arrangement filters are among the best at uptaking extra feed waste so you don't have to work as hard on wc if someone likes to employ nutrient controls. smaller systems like mine respond just fine to water changes but if I had a 220 for sure some nutrient controls to lessen change work would be factored.
It is so easy to write that some limiting nutrient will resolve an algae problem in example tank X
it is so hard to make a live time thread and actually correct tank X searching for the right limiter, to me that's the heart of the matter. It is not hard to get a turnaround in tank X by running a spot kill, all the variability is in the growback imo. we don't like to purposefully seed the tank with fragmenting bits in the large tank correction threads we run. others use different ways.
Nutrient controls are promised to work in articles that cite ocean studies, from all kinds of nutrient adsorbent media including plant arrangements, and when it doesn't those peoples posts just fall to the wayside and they have to look elsewhere.
for sure its wise to use plant arrangements or other methods to keep nutrient params within goal ranges. what I hope changes for the hobby is the knowledge that being algae free is not all about nutrient controls, there's a direct action factor missing from 100% of the problem algae tanks currently posting who farmed it on purpose in the first place. catching up is darn hard in some cases, and the nutrients-only camp is constantly advising to leave algae on purpose in a DT, then build up something to attack the water to starve it, universally a nutrients-only proponent will tell a poster that to act on the algae directly is a bandaid...not the case, it can save your tank and we document that in droves.
we've found that in most cases you simply kill the algae in the DT and hold course with preventatives to really turn a large portion of problem tanks around. I feed abundantly and don't mind water changes to offset, plant arrangement filters are among the best at uptaking extra feed waste so you don't have to work as hard on wc if someone likes to employ nutrient controls. smaller systems like mine respond just fine to water changes but if I had a 220 for sure some nutrient controls to lessen change work would be factored.
It is so easy to write that some limiting nutrient will resolve an algae problem in example tank X
it is so hard to make a live time thread and actually correct tank X searching for the right limiter, to me that's the heart of the matter. It is not hard to get a turnaround in tank X by running a spot kill, all the variability is in the growback imo. we don't like to purposefully seed the tank with fragmenting bits in the large tank correction threads we run. others use different ways.
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SantaMonicaHelp
Valuable Member
Hope this will help
Phosphate flow out of rocks
Many people, when they get their nutrients low for the first time, get worried when more (not less) algae starts to grow on their rocks. It seems really strange, especially when nitrate and phosphate have gone lower than before. What is happening is that phosphate is coming out of the rocks. Remember, phosphate is invisible, so you can only see the effects of it, and it always "flows" from higher concentrations to lower concentrations (just like heat does).
Example: If your room is warm, and you put a cold object on the floor, heat from the air in the room will "flow" into the object until the object and the air are the same temperature. Example 2: If you put a hot object on the floor, heat will "flow" out of the object and go into the air in the room, again, until the air and the object are the same temperature. Now suppose you open your windows (in the winter). The warm air in your room will go out the windows, and it will get colder in the room. The object on the floor is now warmer than the air, so heat will flow out of the object and into the air, and then out the window.
Think of phosphate as the heat, and your rocks as the object, and your windows as the scrubber. As the scrubber pulls phosphate out of the water, the phosphate level in the water drops. Now, since the phosphate level in the water is lower than the phosphate level in the rocks, phosphate flows from the rocks into the water, and then from the water into the scrubber. This continues until the phosphate levels in the rocks and water are level again. And remember, you can't see this invisible flow.
This flow causes an interesting thing to happen. As the phosphate comes out of the rocks, it then becomes available to feed algae as soon as the phosphate reaches the surface of the rocks where there is light. So, since the surface of the rocks is rough and has light, it starts growing MORE algae there (not less) as the phosphate comes out of the rocks. This is a pretty amazing thing to see for the first time, because if you did not know what was happening you would probably think that the algae was mysteriously being added to your tank. Here are the signs of phosphate coming out of the rocks:
1. The rocks are older, and have slowly developed algae problems in the past year.
2. Your filters have recently started to work well, or you made them stronger.
3. Nitrate and phosphate measurements in the water are low, usually the lowest they have been in a long time.
4. Green hair algae (not brown) on the rocks has increased in certain spots, usually on corners and protrusions at the top.
5. The glass has not needed cleaning as much.
Many people have never seen the effects of large amounts of phosphate coming out of the rocks quickly. But sure enough it does if you keep nutrients low enough in the water. How long does it continue? For 2 months to a year, depending on how much phosphate is in the rocks, how much feeding you do, and how strong your filters are. But one day you will see patches of white rock that were covered in green hair the day before; this is a sure sign that the algae are losing their phosphate supply from the rocks and can no longer hold on. Now it's just a matter of days before the rocks are clear.
SF
Phosphate flow out of rocks
Many people, when they get their nutrients low for the first time, get worried when more (not less) algae starts to grow on their rocks. It seems really strange, especially when nitrate and phosphate have gone lower than before. What is happening is that phosphate is coming out of the rocks. Remember, phosphate is invisible, so you can only see the effects of it, and it always "flows" from higher concentrations to lower concentrations (just like heat does).
Example: If your room is warm, and you put a cold object on the floor, heat from the air in the room will "flow" into the object until the object and the air are the same temperature. Example 2: If you put a hot object on the floor, heat will "flow" out of the object and go into the air in the room, again, until the air and the object are the same temperature. Now suppose you open your windows (in the winter). The warm air in your room will go out the windows, and it will get colder in the room. The object on the floor is now warmer than the air, so heat will flow out of the object and into the air, and then out the window.
Think of phosphate as the heat, and your rocks as the object, and your windows as the scrubber. As the scrubber pulls phosphate out of the water, the phosphate level in the water drops. Now, since the phosphate level in the water is lower than the phosphate level in the rocks, phosphate flows from the rocks into the water, and then from the water into the scrubber. This continues until the phosphate levels in the rocks and water are level again. And remember, you can't see this invisible flow.
This flow causes an interesting thing to happen. As the phosphate comes out of the rocks, it then becomes available to feed algae as soon as the phosphate reaches the surface of the rocks where there is light. So, since the surface of the rocks is rough and has light, it starts growing MORE algae there (not less) as the phosphate comes out of the rocks. This is a pretty amazing thing to see for the first time, because if you did not know what was happening you would probably think that the algae was mysteriously being added to your tank. Here are the signs of phosphate coming out of the rocks:
1. The rocks are older, and have slowly developed algae problems in the past year.
2. Your filters have recently started to work well, or you made them stronger.
3. Nitrate and phosphate measurements in the water are low, usually the lowest they have been in a long time.
4. Green hair algae (not brown) on the rocks has increased in certain spots, usually on corners and protrusions at the top.
5. The glass has not needed cleaning as much.
Many people have never seen the effects of large amounts of phosphate coming out of the rocks quickly. But sure enough it does if you keep nutrients low enough in the water. How long does it continue? For 2 months to a year, depending on how much phosphate is in the rocks, how much feeding you do, and how strong your filters are. But one day you will see patches of white rock that were covered in green hair the day before; this is a sure sign that the algae are losing their phosphate supply from the rocks and can no longer hold on. Now it's just a matter of days before the rocks are clear.
SF
Bugger
Well-Known Member
It only gets clogged with kalk wasser use your theory does not apply. think about it. It grows in the ocean. It is in ultra low nutrient levels but it still grows in the ocean. starving it out is a silly idea made by the industry of gfo manufactures and carbon distrubters they don't back up any of there ideas with any proof its as bad as zeovit.
dbrewsky
Active Member
There are some interesting theories on this post and its cool to see the different viewpoints about the algae the OP has posted. What we know is that nutrients build up due to biological process and cannot be avoided. Since these aquariums are closed systems, those nutrients have to be exported in some manner. That can be chemicals, algae, bound to aragonite, consumed by bacteria.... etc. The one thing I haven't seen spoken about much and still the most effective method of exporting these nutrients is still the tried-and-true water change. No other method is as effective as a solid water change schedule in reducing nutrients and contaminants. We can spend time attempting to debate this approach vs the other and throw personal observations and opinions into the mix, but in the time we have been trying to determine to best approach on this thread, multiple water changes could have been made and the OP system could be turning around. Yes, nutrient and algae issues suck, and they take time and effort to correct them, but nobody can deny if this effort is put forth the algae can be over come and prevented from taking over again in the future. Carry on!
PurduePete93
New Member
@SantaMonicaHelp
Thanks so much for this write-up. I'm hopeful that this is exactly what I'm experiencing.
I setup my 90g reef about 3-4 months ago with a mixture of live pukani, dry pucani, and reef saver rock. Early on I had algae bloom over just about everything. Not too bad, but not what you want.
I setup my refugium about a month ago with a light on for 12 hours each night and that macro algae has grown nicely.
Over the past week or two I have noticed that the water is very clear and I'm only needing to clean the glass every few days (I was needing to clean glass a few times a day).
Most of the rock - especially the reef saver and dry pukani is also noticeably much cleaner with almost all hair algae gone.
That said - the live pukani has had a crazy algae bloom that was concerning me. Your post gives me hope that what I'm seeing would be natural as the rocks may indeed be just leaching the phosphorus that could have come with the rocks.
I'll try to post another update in the weeks/months ahead when I see what else develops.
Thanks so much for this write-up. I'm hopeful that this is exactly what I'm experiencing.
I setup my 90g reef about 3-4 months ago with a mixture of live pukani, dry pucani, and reef saver rock. Early on I had algae bloom over just about everything. Not too bad, but not what you want.
I setup my refugium about a month ago with a light on for 12 hours each night and that macro algae has grown nicely.
Over the past week or two I have noticed that the water is very clear and I'm only needing to clean the glass every few days (I was needing to clean glass a few times a day).
Most of the rock - especially the reef saver and dry pukani is also noticeably much cleaner with almost all hair algae gone.
That said - the live pukani has had a crazy algae bloom that was concerning me. Your post gives me hope that what I'm seeing would be natural as the rocks may indeed be just leaching the phosphorus that could have come with the rocks.
I'll try to post another update in the weeks/months ahead when I see what else develops.
SantaMonicaHelp
Valuable Member
Rocks still look brand new, sounds like a typical start up, everything is fine!
Sandra
Sandra
madelyn252
New Member
It’s a nano tank, yellow tangs are too large for nano tanks
DannoOMG
Active Member
I have a the 13 gallon Evo and I am eating crap on Algae too.
I used to use the skimmer that went with the tank but it didn't really skim a whole lot. So I changed my filtration setup for a mechanical and macro set up...
Chamber 1^^^
Chamber 2^^^^
I'm trying to catch as much junk before it ends up in the filtration section of the tank.
Even though my nitrates and phosphates have been getting somewhat under control since the new filtration method, I still have a bunch of GHA...
It's a mess. I don't have fish in the tank anymore and won't get another for a year. I just spot feed my corals twice a week with reefroids and put phytoplankton in every other day. I also try and feed my reefugium "chaetogro" so it can hopefully get going and weaken this stuff.
It's a real hair puller sometimes. I try and remove as much GHA as I can by hand. Some spots it comes off easy, some spots it is impossible. I am just trying to wait and see what happens at this point.
I also attached my entire testing/water change history for laughs. Hopefully in a year things start working out I guess...
I used to use the skimmer that went with the tank but it didn't really skim a whole lot. So I changed my filtration setup for a mechanical and macro set up...
Chamber 1^^^
Chamber 2^^^^
I'm trying to catch as much junk before it ends up in the filtration section of the tank.
Even though my nitrates and phosphates have been getting somewhat under control since the new filtration method, I still have a bunch of GHA...
It's a mess. I don't have fish in the tank anymore and won't get another for a year. I just spot feed my corals twice a week with reefroids and put phytoplankton in every other day. I also try and feed my reefugium "chaetogro" so it can hopefully get going and weaken this stuff.
It's a real hair puller sometimes. I try and remove as much GHA as I can by hand. Some spots it comes off easy, some spots it is impossible. I am just trying to wait and see what happens at this point.
I also attached my entire testing/water change history for laughs. Hopefully in a year things start working out I guess...
PlumbTuckered
Community Member
I love it when I read a post like this.
The tank is two months old and there are corals. The driving force behind this tank is impatience. And posts like this that don't provide details really roasts my chestnuts.
"Water parameters are good" usually means that there is no testing going on at all. And to not know about using RODI water is a sure sign that no research was done, and that the set up of this tank was an impulsive one.
Here is what you do: READ the info here. You would not be having none of the problems you post about if you did your home work.
I see you continue to spout this. So you’re saying it’s strictly because of running too bright of white LEDs? That’s ridiculous. Aquariums 20 years ago ran with 10k metal halide didn’t have the GHA phase or did have it but it eventually went away. I had many of these tanks.
In my opinion it simply comes down to using dead/ dry rock or PO4 bound dry rock + lack of mature micro biome on the rocks that we used to get when buying live rock back in the day….though we would still get an ugly phase because of some die off on the live rock….. so the answer was patience as ecological succession takes place. I think people starting new tanks need to go read up on ecological succession.
It didn’t help that this tank was ran with tap water at the beginning. Now it’s just a waiting game.
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