How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

[Chihiro 062]

Hi @Brandon, I have currently set up my new tank at the 3rd week of fishless cycle, I use Dr Tim bac, Carib live sand and rocks. I did the API test as attachment below.
Nh3 0
Both NO2 and NO3 r quite height. I have read at ur post NO2 doesn’t matter at all. Would you mind giving me some advices if my cycle is good. Can I change water and get the live stock yet?
Many thanks
Chinh

 

[brandon429]

Thanks for posting we enjoy new examples

Your tests and timing are exactly like Franci’s current reports, yes for sure you can begin reefing that bottle bac had you ready by day ten ish, three weeks is excellent prep wait time, can reef now

send us update pic when life is in the tank, do a nice initial water change then begin

just from that one pic we can tell the bottle bac you used wasn’t dead. Given that, we know the three weeks time was plenty wait.

 

[Chihiro 062]

Thanks for posting we enjoy new examples

Your tests and timing are exactly like Franci’s current reports, yes for sure you can begin reefing that bottle bac had you ready by day ten ish, three weeks is excellent prep wait time, can reef now

send us update pic when life is in the tank, do a nice initial water change then begin

just from that one pic we can tell the bottle bac you used wasn’t dead. Given that, we know the three weeks time was plenty wait.

Thank you so much. I will keep updates to help you prove the new cycled methods which will help others. I was so confused with it when I saw Dr.Tim video and think that my cycle is stalled with too high Nitrite ( N02).

 

[Franci1017]

Day 25 of the Cycle... CYCLE DONE!!!!!!!

I just want to Thank You Brandon .. YOU ROCK!!!..

 

[brandon429]

That’s really neat, let the record reflect two things: cycling charts are awesome and my enduring skepticism for anything involving nitrite I didn’t think it would clear until 2022 he he

it truly was helpful to see the damsels not in distress the whole time

 

[Chihiro 062]

Update for my reefs, I get two clown fish’s and an elegance coral yesterday. They r all so happy. I did not test anything again but I can feel both coral and fishes so enjoyable everything. Therefore, I think my tanks cycle is complete.

Thank you @Brandon so much

 

[brandon429]

New Tank Fishless Cycle Issues

Hi Everyone, Long time lurker on this forum and recently got into the hobby (5 weeks marine, but 2 years freshwater). I set up my Red Sea Nano Max 75L 5 weeks ago with the included protein skimmer, Red Sea live sand, a couple of dry rocks, Marine Pure filter media spheres, and RODI water with...

www.reef2reef.com

This cycle was unstuck with a full water change after the known deposition period for the bacteria added. It's such a fitting work example because they're showing pure control over the cycle + follow up pics of water control and new life added + feed.

 

[Romer]

Hi. I am new to reefing and just started a tank. 72 Gallon, sand bed, sump system with bio balls. Protein skimmer is off. Tank is 77 degrees. Dosed with pure ammonia and Dr. Tim's. Six days later Ammonia dropped to 1ppm and Nitrites were .10, Nitrates were 5ppm and it has not moved in the week since. I have not done any water changes yet. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[brandon429]

that system can carry fish right now, thousands of folks do Dr TIm's + instant fish in tank, and when we measure that on seneye (below) things are in spec for safety.


but fish disease is the true issue, right now in the fish disease forum thousands of reefers who skipped initial preps are circling back around for preps after the fact with their second round of fish sick. truly your issue is fish disease there is no ammonia risk in any system when you've tracked ammonia going down after adding known ammonia oxidizers. thanks tons for posting!!!!!!!!!

*every poster here is assumed to present with at least rocks present the whole time during cycle in the water. Sand too if possible for the extra surface area. if you had attachment points present in this cycling tank then they're full up on bacteria.

we get to shape cycling practice with every entrant and outcome here. Our hobby in the past has us focusing for weeks on ammonia, weeks and months on nitrite, and all along the #1 cause of fish loss for new cyclers was slipping right by our eyes (and conventions were the only collections of reef tanks that could cycle on a predicted timescale)

Pls follow up when you load up the tank whichever way you choose regarding bioload, its ready but research fish disease preps carefully on the second link

b

proof that fish-in cycling isn't harming fish, where the bottle bac wasn't killed by bad shipping/handling. You've waited a few days past this documented ability, plus you found the same movement:

Is anyone with a mindstream or seneye ammonia reader willing to co-fund a cycling experiment with me

Hmm this 20 gallon tank took almost 1ml to hit 0.022. I didn’t see any movement till .5ml Per Dr. Tims, 1ml = 20 drops. I'm dosing 0.2 ml (4 drops) to get a few thousands, give or take. Sometimes my drops are not that exact though. My Seneye is in the return chamber and I dose one chamber...

www.reef2reef.com

fish disease preps, no better info exists in the hobby than is found right here in patterns:

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Romer]

Thanks!

 

[Salsa30]

Hi, just found this thread and am looking for thoughts.

I dosed Dr. Tim's a week ago (4/13) and am pretty sure I added too much ammonia. This is a Red Sea Reefer XL 300 (65 gal display + 15 gal sump). I haven't added any ammonia since the first day. Here are my test results over the last week:

Date	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate
04/19/2021​	4​	0.5​	5​
04/18/2021​	4​	0.2​	Did not test
04/17/2021​	Over Range	0.2​	Did not test
04/16/2021​
04/15/2021​	Over Range	0.05​	Did not test
04/14/2021​	Over Range	0.05​	Did not test

I had not been testing nitrate, as I don't think that was part of the instructions (just ammonia, ph, nitrite). I did have to dilute my ammonia sample 50% in order to get a reading on the red sea test kit.

I was thinking about doing a 25% water change. Thanks for the great thread (haven't gotten a chance to read the entire thing yet, there's a lot, lol).

 

[brandon429]

agreed 13 pages its a lot of momentum I really enjoy making the custom calls for each unique tank too, its fun to see how those pan out when ya'll update with fish and or life in the tank as the final proof of a darn fine cycle.


so in your case even with an overdose well over the max I do not think you've hit toxicity levels for filtration bacteria. if that tank was mine I'd simply let it sit 14 total days in that condition its in, which we can use to prove after the fact wasn't lethal but hyper-feeding...then on 14th day underwater change all that stinky wastewater out.
for new

and the filter stays stuck behind in every single reef tank presentation Ive ever seen. all 13 pages of the thread condenses down to that, thanks tons for posting


this thread uses appropriate science jabbing to rib the greater community of gatekeepers who tell us cycles can stall and cause us to buy more bottle bac. going by their rules you've killed your bac and that's why it wont move.


but going off our rules, contact time duration rules all

and at 14 days nobody wrote a cycling chart showing ammonia going back up


all we do is change out the wastewater full of various metabolites skewing your tests...their old rules don't account for today's API misreading madness all their rules assumed we're using equally accurate tests to make cycling calls.

we are indeed not all using accurate tools. Ive yet to see any aquarium fed well and meeting this 14~ day window that couldn't handle life after a water change. its 100% compliance so far. the sole reason for our thread is to test the rules in the new arrangement and log patterns for inspection.

the hallmark of this thread is we can name your cycle completion date even before the tank is arranged...they're that predictable even with minor prep variations. Your specific start date is 14 days after initial setup, full water change, consider your fish disease protocols before adding fish though it'll carry ten fish if you want it.

we are able to call your cycle status here using any single reported parameter in the cycle, we'll solve for the others with that approximation and the known time your tank has been wet.

 

[tc3driver]

My First post on this forum, I felt the need to contribute:

I will start by apologizing, My seneye slide initially registered as expired (they fixed it 2 days later), so there are a couple days of missing data.

Tank Specs 85G with a 40breeder sump
Live rock and CaribSea Arag-Alive Fiji Pink Aquariam Sand, 20 lbs X4

Initial Bottled Bac: Brightwell Microbacter 7 dosed at the recommended amount daily
Food: Fritz Pro Aquatics Ammonium Cloride (1 teaspoon ~.4ppm per API test kit only added once)
Second Addition of Bacteria: Brightewell MicroBacter QuikCycl (that is the second spike in ammonia)
No fish added at the time of this post (that is happening tomorrow)
Salt: Red Sea coral pro
SG: 1.025
Temperature: 77.9-78.6
PH: 8.25-8.33

And a picture of the tank:

 

[brandon429]

tc3driver


we are so happy to have your first post here on our cycle study! welcome to reef2reef for sure thanks tons for posting.


you know what I like about that data, and tank overall pic

its that your ammonia trending darn near matches a cycling chart completely. that's so sharp I can't wait to see how things adjust with bioload. Very sharp and that's a rare seneye data set for us, we like seneye nh3 readouts more than anything here.

 

[brandon429]

it is very hard to initially tune seneyes without having an already cycled reef to test on/benchmark and see the .00x thousandths ppm initial calibration read (this is what all display reefs post cycle run at, it doesn't vary we've seen in any display system so far, very consistent trending)


the fact you're in hundredths is darn close and we can learn your benchmarking even on this very system by seeing if the system stalls out in the hundredths vs the last drop into thousandths pretty soon in fact. there are trim methods we discuss here that can help finals if needed:

A thread tracking the incidence of seneye nh3 misreads

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/using-seneye-reef-readings-to-cycle-tank.773299/ there are two more, I want to log these in one thread so we can begin patterning. I’ll go find the others in no way does that reef above have tenths ppm nh3 but thats not been proven, yet.

www.reef2reef.com

Stuck cycle count summary for page 13 soon to be 14: Zero.
no reef tank cycles stall, that's buyer's training.

 

[brandon429]

while cycling Nitrites Staying at 4 ppm. Suggestions welcome.

So, as the title suggests. New tank - 10 gallon waterbox cube. Fishless cycle using with Dr. Tims. Also "live rock" the LFS has rock which they called live and was sitting in a tank at the end,. Dr Tims Live Rock Live Sand Test kids: Red Sea Kit (ammonia, Nitrate, nitrate, PH, Alk; Apex also...

www.reef2reef.com

two claimed stalled cycles
we just unstalled them.

 

[Meangrumpy]

while cycling Nitrites Staying at 4 ppm. Suggestions welcome.

So, as the title suggests. New tank - 10 gallon waterbox cube. Fishless cycle using with Dr. Tims. Also "live rock" the LFS has rock which they called live and was sitting in a tank at the end,. Dr Tims Live Rock Live Sand Test kids: Red Sea Kit (ammonia, Nitrate, nitrate, PH, Alk; Apex also...

www.reef2reef.com

two claimed stalled cycles

Azekendae told them they were stalled, we just unstalled them.

Okay, so new to reef aquariums here. Been reading this with great interest and have some questions regarding my new tank. 73G display, 91G total water volume. Today is day 19 of my cycle. It has aragalite live sand and clarisea dry live-rock. Added full bottle of Dr. Tim's the day I put the sand and water in. So, ammonimum spiked a little bit, about .2, around the end of the first week. Since then, ammonium has shown at zero (Sera test kit). However, since the ammonium spike, nitrites have been off the chart. Again, Sera test that only measures to 5, and the color has been maxed out that entire time. At the end of the first week I was talking with LFS, and as a gift and test, they gave me a very small frag of pulsing Xenia to be my "canary in a coalmine" to see how the tank is doing. For the first few days it opened and closed with the light cycle. This past week, it has been slightly pulsing and getting better every day. I have been hesitant to put anything in it as I've been told the nitrites are still dangerous. The Xenia is doing well, but I've been told that stuff is practically unkillable. This thread has me thinking the cycle is actually complete.

My next question. If I wish to add livestock now with zero ammonium but high nitrites, do I HAVE to do a full water change? I have no issue doing 5 or 10%, but at the moment, a full change would be a challenge. If I don't do a full change, what will be the danger to any added livestock. About 2 days ago, I have started getting diatom spots over the tank, so I have gone full blackout on the lights. I'd love to add some CUC and maybe a fish or two in order to get SOME livestock in to look at, but I don't want to possibly harm or kill them if the tank isn't ready.

 

[brandon429]

Im 100% certain you can just reef right now, choose your fish disease protocols carefully even though the system can easily carry 20 fish, not a joke it can. Thank you so much for posting!

post tank pics so we can see the classic surface area arrangement in play. that's the workhorse for your system, the spread out rocks and sand, it is not about the bac primarily. those happen to be alive and well per your ammonia motions however.


In order to position your tank in our thread which uses objective measures to call a cycle/start date complete:

key terms from you: 19 days duration so far, Dr. Tim's is ten day bac at most and usually works instantly, Jon's seneye testing thread shows. so you're set. Plus, you've seen ammonia drop


-any movement of ammonia down means cycled, the old rule that it must be 2 ppm is made up to sell you bottle bac and make you buy more if it seems to stall at .25 (it just needed a little more boost, right?)

-We provide absolute start dates here, not guesses or possible start dates. We use the science that thousands of skip cyclers at reef conventions past and future use/will use, thank you much for posting!


-we did not factor nitrite whatsoever at any phase in any tank here, and because nitrite skews initial nitrate data, kick that one out as well. ammonia motion is all we need to know.

 

[Meangrumpy]

Im 100% certain you can just reef right now, choose your fish disease protocols carefully even though the system can easily carry 20 fish, not a joke it can. Thank you so much for posting!

post tank pics so we can see the classic surface area arrangement in play. that's the workhorse for your system, the spread out rocks and sand, it is not about the bac primarily. those happen to be alive and well per your ammonia motions however.


In order to position your tank in our thread which uses objective measures to call a cycle/start date complete:

key terms from you: 19 days duration so far, Dr. Tim's is ten day bac at most and usually works instantly, Jon's seneye testing thread shows. so you're set. Plus, you've seen ammonia drop


-any movement of ammonia down means cycled, the old rule that it must be 2 ppm is made up to sell you bottle bac and make you buy more if it seems to stall at .25 (it just needed a little more boost, right?)

-We provide absolute start dates here, not guesses or possible start dates. We use the science that thousands of skip cyclers at reef conventions past and future use/will use, thank you much for posting!


-we did not factor nitrite whatsoever at any phase in any tank here, and because nitrite skews initial nitrate data, kick that one out as well. ammonia motion is all we need to know.

Thanks for the reply. Do I still need to do a huge water change? Or can I go with starting 5-10% water changes weekly and still be okay to put in CUC and a fish or two in?

Thanks.

 

[brandon429]

the larger tanks can get away with no big water change bc its lots of work and cost. the reason we do it in all nanos where possible is its easy plus it just streamlines the tank against algae best as possible considering the bright lights and reflective surfaces coming up (vs coralline covered aged surfaces, not reflective etc)

the large water change is not for protecting small tanks from free ammonia we assume in every case here ammonia was controlled. the few seneye checkpoints we get along the way seem to keep reinforcing what the non seneye tanks are doing, and by what time frame. do the big water change only if practical, algae is pretty much coming anyway lol.