Hydrogen peroxide dosing vs Ozone...compare and contrast

[Brian916]

And this SDS looks like it is 3-6% peroxide. I wonder if you have somehow stumbled on an old SDS or for a lower grade peroxide? :confused:

Could be? I clicked the SDS link on that product page. I wonder if it is a regional thing?

Let us know what you find with the pH? Thanks!!!

 

[Pistondog]

Yes. The water clarity change is very similar and possibly more effective with hydrogen peroxide for a given dose of oxidant.

"One of the most efficient chemical systems that is known to bleach melanin pigments consists of an alkaline solution of hydrogen peroxide"
https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9... the most efficient,accelerated by light (17)

Is melanin a cause of yellowing in our tanks?

 

[Brian916]

Is melanin a cause of yellowing in our tanks?

I have never seen a comprehensive list if the waste products that cause yellowing in water, but melanin and related pigments (carotinoids) are an essential ingredient in all of the foods we feed. Most fish can't sythesize the amino acids needed to produce elements of their coloration. I have to imagine melanin (and related compounds) are part of the problem.

Both ozone and peroxide are effective for the reduction of carotinoids and many other organic chemicals that might also be contributors to yellowing of aquarium water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There are many compounds that cause yellowing in aquaria by absorbing blue light, and most of those have carbon-carbon double bonds that are readily oxidized by ozone and other oxidizers.

I discuss both the types of compounds involved and the reactions here:

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php#10

 

[Brian916]

Could be? I clicked the SDS link on that product page. I wonder if it is a regional thing?

Let us know what you find with the pH? Thanks!!!

@Gomi's Reef
Did you get a chance to verify the pH of your H2O2?

 

[Seancj]

Both ozone and peroxide are effective for the reduction of carotinoids and many other organic chemicals that might also be contributors to yellowing of aquarium water.

Is there any concern of bleaching corals or anemones with the use of hydrogen peroxide at appropriate dosage?

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

I understand the desire for increased water clarity, but you shouldn't need to reduce infectious bacteria...theyre naturally present and if your corals are healthy their immune system will take care of it...

 

[Seancj]

I'm interested in the bacteria control aspect as well. My reef is designed, and therefore heavily dominant, with Magnifica anemones with hopes of successfully keeping gigantea as well. Bacterial infections are the bane of their existence. Even though I quarantine and treat new specimens before adding to the display, it would be nice to know that there is something permanent in the display water that could help eliminate, or at least significantly reduce, the chance of cross contamination, should I not quite get it all during quarantine.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm interested in the bacteria control aspect as well. My reef is designed, and therefore heavily dominant, with Magnifica anemones with hopes of successfully keeping gigantea as well. Bacterial infections are the bane of their existence. Even though I quarantine and treat new specimens before adding to the display, it would be nice to know that there is something permanent in the display water that could help eliminate, or at least significantly reduce, the chance of cross contamination, should I not quite get it all during quarantine.

If that’s the goal, I think you’d need a uv sterilizer. I do not think it would be healthy for the bulk water in a reef tank to be bactericidal.

 

[Brian916]

Is there any concern of bleaching corals or anemones with the use of hydrogen peroxide at appropriate dosage?

Similar to ozone, you should not have issues with corals/nems so long as your ORP stays within a safe range and you take care not to shock your system with too large a change. Like everything in reef keeping, it is always best to start with a low dose and build up as needed.

 

[Gomi's Reef]

@Gomi's Reef
Did you get a chance to verify the pH of your H2O2?

I didn't, sorry work was crazy this week. I have a quieter day today. I'll grab the test strips today and test tonight. Sorry for the delay

 

[Brian916]

I'm interested in the bacteria control aspect as well. My reef is designed, and therefore heavily dominant, with Magnifica anemones with hopes of successfully keeping gigantea as well. Bacterial infections are the bane of their existence. Even though I quarantine and treat new specimens before adding to the display, it would be nice to know that there is something permanent in the display water that could help eliminate, or at least significantly reduce, the chance of cross contamination, should I not quite get it all during quarantine.

I agree with Randy. If the goal is to maintain "sterilized" water, a UV sterilizer is the way to go. Trying to use enough oxidant for this purpose in the long term will impact the good bacteria along with the bad and might not be great for your nems or other inhabitants.

That said, 1000's of reefers have run ozone for for decades and many of then have measurable ORP increases in their tank when the ozone is on meaning that they are not quenching the oxidant but letting it run loose throughout the tank. I have yet to see any substantial reports that safely run ozone harms the tank inhabitants. It just really isn't clear what good the ozone (or any other oxidizer) is doing other than making the water look nice.

In the case of an infection I could easily see the case for running a higher oxidant dose in the short term to slow bacterial growth in the tank. It's your adventure, but I would spend my money on UV and maybe plan on trying an oxidizer as a backup if you have a plague that is trying to crash your tank.

 

[Seancj]

I agree with Randy. If the goal is to maintain "sterilized" water, a UV sterilizer is the way to go. Trying to use enough oxidant for this purpose in the long term will impact the good bacteria along with the bad and might not be great for your nems or other inhabitants.

That said, 1000's of reefers have run ozone for for decades and many of then have measurable ORP increases in their tank when the ozone is on meaning that they are not quenching the oxidant but letting it run loose throughout the tank. I have yet to see any substantial reports that safely run ozone harms the tank inhabitants. It just really isn't clear what good the ozone (or any other oxidizer) is doing other than making the water look nice.

In the case of an infection I could easily see the case for running a higher oxidant dose in the short term to slow bacterial growth in the tank. It's your adventure, but I would spend my money on UV and maybe plan on trying an oxidizer as a backup if you have a plague that is trying to crash your tank.

Thanks for the reply and great info! I am already running a UV.

 

[GARRIGA]

Not a scientist or chemist therefore often the nuance goes over my head. As I understand peroxide, most potent application is dissipating it with 253nm UVC. This creates hydroxyl radicals (OH) that oxidize organics. Plan is to either use food grade or constitute my own using sodium percarbonate which is 2/3 soda ash (need to assess what that's going to do) and avoid pharmacy bought as they all likely have stabilizers otherwise how would shelf life persist as long.

Administer via in tank baths by adding a yet to determine amount and allowed to mix thoroughly before turning on the UVC to dissipate the peroxide. Easy enough to test this as I can use test strips to confirm amount added and confirm tank volume reached that proximity then test later it's gone. Thinking TDS meter might serve same by confirming rise post addition then drop post UVC. I could be totally wrong with latter.

Goal is to run this periodically and see how it goes. Doing this in a test tank therefore I can experiment without life then add fish then add inverts and see how increasing the dosage and duration of the in tank bath affects results as well as behavior and hopefully no loss of life.

Would be nice is it was confirmed this helps in curing certain ailments of helps periodically rid the tank of certain toxins and pathogens.

I also want to see how it interacts with ammonium as OH converts that directly to nitrates and might be useful for QT where establishing a biological filter quickly not often pragmatic and dealing with nitrates not an urgent issue. How this affects copper unknown but based on Randy there is an affect therefore might be best utilized for an alternative to TTM with in tank peroxide baths to avoid the stress of having to move specimens. Read where this was being considered by HumbleFish for large quantities of fish therefore seems some confirmation exists.

Seriously hooking up a controller and doser to automate the application and tracking. Have a DO meter I can use as well to see the affects and in the end going to need the controller later regardless therefore won't we wasted money. Might even throw in some mollies then add infected fish and see what happens. Only one way to find out.

 

[NautiTang]

Interesting thread

 

[Ryan - Serious Reefs]

I’ve always wondered if the results would be similar between the two. I’ve seen a lot of benefits from running ozone for an hour or two at night including reduced odors, better water color, fewer slimes, and perceived water clarity.

My biggest hesitation in recommending it is the lack of a truly standardized dose. ORP is really all we have to guide us, and that is more of a safety ceiling than a controlled, repeatable dosing strategy.

Peroxide, on the other hand, seems like it should be much easier to standardize and dial in from a dosing standpoint.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My biggest hesitation in recommending it is the lack of a truly standardized dose. ORP is really all we have to guide us, and that is more of a safety ceiling than a controlled, repeatable dosing strategy.

Peroxide, on the other hand, seems like it should be much easier to standardize and dial in from a dosing standpoint.

Just an FYI, hydrogen peroxide seems to reduce ORP on addition, and my presumed explanation is that it is known to actually chemically reduce certain trace elements in seawater (such as copper from Cu++ to Cu+), while ozone can only oxidize things. Whether that is good or bad, I am not certain, but it is an important difference that may impact the bioavailability of several trace elements by changing the chemical form.