I can’t decide what to do next

[TankYouVeryMuch]

TL;DR: Petco carbon might have crashed my tank. I might also be dealing with dinos (no one can confirm). Do I pay for ICP testing or just put the money towards replacing sand and rock?

I have been dealing with an ongoing tank crash for well over a month that I’ve never been able to properly identify. Microscope shows moving things, but neither anyone on here or the fb dinoflagelletes group has been able to confidently identify dinos. I might have some amphidinium in my tank, but I’m not sure. I don’t have stringy snot anywhere. I have a brown coating that blows off easily, and I believe is diatoms because it’s gotten much worse now that I’m dosing daily with silicates.

I’ve been treating it like dinos and doing all the right stuff, but moving slowly. Was just about to start dosing nitrate and phosphate, which is all that’s left of the recommended treatments I haven’t done short of a blackout (which is reported to be minimally effective against amphidinium).

One of the things that happened on the day all this started was I added some carbon which I got from Petco. Today I learned that a bunch of people have had *very* similar tank crashes due to Petco carbon, and someone on Reddit tested his and pretty conclusively proved the batch is contaminated with a variety of metals including copper: https://www.reddit.com/r/ReefTank/s/dvusFpdoCV

I’ve been running PolyFilter and haven’t seen any suspicious color changes. I’ve also been religiously changing out the carbon to try and filter out any toxins. Ironically, the last of the Petco carbon I have has been in the tank for a few days, so I can’t properly test it.

So here’s my dilemma: I don’t have a lot of money to throw at the tank unnecessarily, especially considering how much of it has been wasted so far (copepods, inverts, and liverock I’ve put in the tank all die off). So do I put some money towards ICP testing to confirm whether I’m dealing with toxic metals, or do I just treat it as if I do and tear the tank down, scrub everything, and replace all the sand and live rock? That could potentially fix the Dino issue anyway, assuming I really have one.

What would you do if you were me? Aside from water, rock, and sand, anything else I need to replace versus just scrubbing?

 

[cdemoss01]

Sorry this happened, never trust the chain pet stores! ICP will definitely be needed.

 

[Rocks reef]

If you think it is Dino's what are your parameters?

 

[TX_REEF]

I think ~$40 on ICP is a better value than paying to replace rock or spending the extensive effort to do so. I'd do that first, and I can recommend this kit from my personal experience ( https://amzn.to/3U0kp9u )along with:

• Stop using Petco carbon if you suspect it may be an issue. I'd return it and get your $ back, just tell them it killed your fish if it's a suspect, I recommend rox carbon as it is reputable and dust-free: https://amzn.to/403yZRb
• Water changes are your friend. Regardless of what the issue is, new saltwater will more than likely help. You can easily do 10% a day water change without causing more harm than good.
• What do you mean by "crashing"? just lots of ugly algae and such? If so, post your water parameters please so we can review
• Think about what else may have changed recently. Any new tank additives/supplements, chemical or paint use in the house, temperature issues? A couple examples from my experience:
  • my freshwater planted tank was failing to thrive, snails kept dying. Turns out the heater had a faulty thermostat and the water was over 90 degrees, which I diagnosed by adding a standalone thermometer.
  • My frag tank corals suddenly starting having less polyp extension. I had accidentally overdosed iodide, water changes solved the issue.
  • My display tank had lots of nuissance algae, tested parameters, elevated nitrate and phosphate. I also ran ICP test, and learned that my ro/di water contained elevated aluminum and silica. Water changes and changing my ro/di filters solved the issue.

 

[TankYouVeryMuch]

I’m not trying to be vague, I’ve actually made multiple posts as I’ve been working my way through this and was trying to not be repetitive. Here’s a brief overview:

- Noticed a brown dusting in my tank which I believed were diatoms. Everything seemed fine otherwise.
- I did some tank maintenance, including adding some carbon and refilling an ATO with RO water from a questionable source (vitamin cottage), and replacing vinyl tubing on pump. I have since replaced the tubing again from a different source to be sure.
- Immediately after turning the pump back on, my corals all closed up. Some died. Most of my inverts died within 24 hours, including snails and a starfish. Hermit died within a week. Urchin almost died but ultimately survived.
- I’ve done three 50% water changes, regularly changing out carbon and polyfilter, and sometimes running a skimmer to remove contaminants.
- I’ve dosed tons of pods to the tank and they all die within a day or two.
- No algae or anything else will grow in the tank. I am dosing silicates daily and am back to a brown dusty coating that dissipates at night.
- Microscope shows a few things swimming around but no one agrees on what.
- Daily dosing PNS probio and Live Phyto
- All tank parameters I tested are normal save for nitrates where were bottomed out. They’re now up to around 5. I am waiting for chemicals to arrive to dose ammonium and phosphate if necessary, but it looks to me like they’re not needed due to potential diatom bloom.

Parameters:
Nitrate: Was 0, now 5
pH: 8.0
Salinity: 1.5
Temp: 79-81
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0

Those are all drip tests. Strip test also shows nothing unusual, including no heavy metal detection.

 

[TX_REEF]

I'd definitely recommend ICP, which will include analysis of your tank water and ro/di water.

 

[TankYouVeryMuch]

I'd definitely recommend ICP, which will include analysis of your tank water and ro/di water.

The tank itself is only a 20 gallon—the money spent on an ICP test would go a good way towards replacing the sand and rock. Alternatively I could try and run something like cuprisorb and different carbon to remove whatever might be in the water, and hope nothing considerable is being leached out. I see benefits and drawbacks to both sides, which is why I’m on the fence.

 

[TX_REEF]

your tank, your call! just telling you what I would do. Hope things improve for you regardless, I know how discouraging it can be to contend with an unknown reefing malady.

 

[TankYouVeryMuch]

I’m not arguing, I definitely appreciate your input. I’m just trying to explain my thinking and why I’m waffling. I might as well mention I’m on a fixed income (I know, worst hobby ever), so I’m trying not to spend money unnecessarily. Doing an ICP test would certainly be informative, but hopefully you see my quandary.

 

[TX_REEF]

I’m not arguing, I definitely appreciate your input. I’m just trying to explain my thinking and why I’m waffling. I might as well mention I’m on a fixed income (I know, worst hobby ever), so I’m trying not to spend money unnecessarily. Doing an ICP test would certainly be informative, but hopefully you see my quandary.

definitely understand, and I'd never shame anyone for trying to be frugal, regardless of the reason. my thought though, is that if you did 2x 50% water changes, i.e all new water in the tank, and still struggling with progress, tainted ro/di water is a good candidate for the root cause.

 

[bubbgee]

After ICP, maybe do Aquabiomics Test?

It's probably something in the biome. What I did to add stability to my tank is dose Aquaforest Life Source (removing some of the metallic stuff with a magnet) weekly for two months. I was never able to grow coralline before and once I started doing that, coralline started popping up all over the tank which is a good sign for me.

 

[TankYouVeryMuch]

The water I’m using now is all purchased from one of the best LFS in the area, both RODI and saltwater. It’s what they use in their own tanks, so I’m assuming it’s safe.

 

[bubbgee]

definitely understand, and I'd never shame anyone for trying to be frugal, regardless of the reason. my thought though, is that if you did 2x 50% water changes, i.e all new water in the tank, and still struggling with progress, tainted ro/di water is a good candidate for the root cause.

I agree with this. I stopped trusting other water sources and started with the RODI buddy until I was able to get the six stage RODI filter set up.

 

[FishLvR]

Two fishes carbon stuck to a fridge magnet like a boss. Full of iron and nickel I bet. I think that was the beginning of the downfall of my JBJ 45. By the time I realized that was the issue it was already dead in the water. I wrote to them all those years ago and they responded with a it's not our carbon. Even showing the magnet they claimed I switched the carbon out. I think I posted about it here too. So it's not just a Petco issue. I use ROX now. You say it's just a 20 gallon. So I think personally I would rehome everything still alive and start over. Better use of your money.

Also, you say cost is an issue. STOP BUYING WATER. Get a small, cheap BRS or similar RO unit. I highly suggest you dont get the RO buddy as it is a giant pile of garbage with expensive filters (how they make their money I assume) unless they no longer use proprietary filters? This will save you hundreds of dollars over the years and you won't have to haul buckets. A 20 gallon you can mix water in a 5 gallon bucket for water changed. Easy easy!

 

[bubbgee]

The water I’m using now is all purchased from one of the best LFS in the area, both RODI and saltwater. It’s what they use in their own tanks, so I’m assuming it’s safe.

Oh I did that start with that too with my LFS. I was plagued with so much nuisance algae for years that I gave up a few times. I finally decided to test the water (both RODI and salt water they made) -- the TDS was off the roof and their nutrients were high. That's when I decided to get my own filter.

It works for them because they have established their setup for years and their filtration/rocks/skimmers has been able to catch up. But then, I was trying to just establish mine and it wasn't working for me. Also, they probably never changed their filters in months past and filters are an expensive line item for an LFS.

 

[dvgyfresh]

The water I’m using now is all purchased from one of the best LFS in the area, both RODI and saltwater. It’s what they use in their own tanks, so I’m assuming it’s safe.

Not saying it’s bad but my LFS rodi tested worse than tap water using a meter reader. Gotta remember they are using there filters like 24 hours a day it needs constant replacement , and not all of them do so

 

[dvgyfresh]

Also for a carbon source , I always used chemi pure blue

 

[TankYouVeryMuch]

The water I’m using now is all purchased from one of the best LFS in the area, both RODI and saltwater. It’s what they use in their own tanks, so I’m assuming it’s safe.

Not saying it’s bad but my LFS rodi tested worse than tap water using a meter reader. Gotta remember they are using there filters like 24 hours a day it needs constant replacement , and not all of them do so

I will at least say that I saw them use two different TDS meters to check water I brought them and compare to their own, and both showed 0 on their water. I know that’s not foolproof, but it’s something!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

As I posted to the other thread, the Reddit test is a huge overestimate of the metals added (by putting a full cup in only 2 gallons of seawater). It might have been the problem, but it is not obviously so based on what was written there.

 

[Uncle99]

TL;DR: Petco carbon might have crashed my tank. I might also be dealing with dinos (no one can confirm). Do I pay for ICP testing or just put the money towards replacing sand and rock?

I have been dealing with an ongoing tank crash for well over a month that I’ve never been able to properly identify. Microscope shows moving things, but neither anyone on here or the fb dinoflagelletes group has been able to confidently identify dinos. I might have some amphidinium in my tank, but I’m not sure. I don’t have stringy snot anywhere. I have a brown coating that blows off easily, and I believe is diatoms because it’s gotten much worse now that I’m dosing daily with silicates.

I’ve been treating it like dinos and doing all the right stuff, but moving slowly. Was just about to start dosing nitrate and phosphate, which is all that’s left of the recommended treatments I haven’t done short of a blackout (which is reported to be minimally effective against amphidinium).

One of the things that happened on the day all this started was I added some carbon which I got from Petco. Today I learned that a bunch of people have had *very* similar tank crashes due to Petco carbon, and someone on Reddit tested his and pretty conclusively proved the batch is contaminated with a variety of metals including copper: https://www.reddit.com/r/ReefTank/s/dvusFpdoCV

I’ve been running PolyFilter and haven’t seen any suspicious color changes. I’ve also been religiously changing out the carbon to try and filter out any toxins. Ironically, the last of the Petco carbon I have has been in the tank for a few days, so I can’t properly test it.

So here’s my dilemma: I don’t have a lot of money to throw at the tank unnecessarily, especially considering how much of it has been wasted so far (copepods, inverts, and liverock I’ve put in the tank all die off). So do I put some money towards ICP testing to confirm whether I’m dealing with toxic metals, or do I just treat it as if I do and tear the tank down, scrub everything, and replace all the sand and live rock? That could potentially fix the Dino issue anyway, assuming I really have one.

What would you do if you were me? Aside from water, rock, and sand, anything else I need to replace versus just scrubbing?

I think you’re overthinking this too much.
There are dozens of reasons a tank may “crash”.

unless your talking full crash (everything dead), then I would just put my time and money into testing and put your parameters on point.

Pest stuff like Dino, and Cyano love unstable water conditions (Fluxing Alk) and zero nutrient waters.

The good guy stuff, which you mostly can’t see by eye are the best to keep rocks clean and sand white.

But you must provide an “environment” which they will thrive in. Water chemistry is paramount.

Then they populate faster than the pest stuff and outcompete the bad.

Some keep rocks clean, some the sand, and some consume phosphate, which is in turn, available to feed corals.

I’d salvage what’s left and move forward.