I need help, 1y+ in and still nothing but issues.

[Biff0rz]

Man, this tank is killing me. I've gone through so many different phases of it and I'm seemingly making little to no progress.

First, I did the normal cycle. Then I got a small bit of Dino, nothing drastic. I added a UV sterilizer. Then I got some GHA, Cyano, and it got really bad. I was very much over-feeding. I decided to use chemiclean to get rid of the cyano and it worked great! ...until Dinos came back with a vengeance. I've been fighting them for a good 3mo with a nasty bout of GHA. Based on advice in the dino thread I used fluconazole to treat the gha then I took mitigation steps against the dino. The dino has finally been suppressed (never gone) but now the tank is breaking out in Cyano really bad again! It's been a year and this is driving me nuts. The last thing I want to do right now is use chemiclean and cause another dino outbreak...cyano is bad but dino is way worse. Dino wiped out all of my corals except for a ric mushroom. I've been keeping things really stable as far as alk/ca/mg/no3/po4/ph. I've since tried to reduce nutrients further-
I used to overfeed and have since started using cubes exclusively. I fed 3 cubes/day all through dino. Since I've seen cyano popping up I started skimming more aggressively and feeding only 2 cubes a day - I also refreshed my T5 bulbs as they were 1yr old. I have 3 tangs so I do feed them nori and I've cut down on that too. I used to feed 1 sheet/day and now I'm down to 1/4 sheet every 2 days. The fish are getting quite aggressive with feeding because when I do feed, it lasts about 30s-1m in the water and it's under that 2m sweet spot. At this point I'm not really sure what to do. I know cyano is a bacteria and I can use chemicals to remove it but I really fear going back to dino land. Maybe my tank is over stocked? I don't think so, but who knows?
4" purple
3" yellow
4.5" naso
2" mandarin
1" clown
2" blue face angel
3" potters angel
3" blue throat trigger
4" copperbanded butterfly
3" leopard wrasse
lots of hermits/snails

233g tank, 50g sump, filter roller, skimmer, refugium w/chaeto

params-
Sg 35ppt / 78*
no3 7-9ppm (non comp) - w/no2 compensation 5ppm / no2 ~.025
po4 0.13 (trying dang hard to reduce this)
ca 500
mg 1450
Alk 7.4 (+/- .15)
Ph 7.8-8.15

Things I do regularly trying to keep dino and cyano at bay-
blow off rocks (bi-daily), vacuum sandbed (every 2 wks), dose microbacter7/mb clean w UV/Skimmer off for 4 hours (bi-daily).

Thoughts?

 

[New&no clue]

Have you sent your water out for an ICP test?

 

[Chrisv.]

What do you run for phosphate removal? What's your cuc like?

 

[Biff0rz]

Have you sent your water out for an ICP test?

Yes a few months ago. Readings were all in line with my tests and nothing stood out as an issue.

What do you run for phosphate removal? What's your cuc like?

Skimmer and fuge. Not running chemical po4 remover right now. Cuc is crabs, snails.

 

[Chrisv.]

Yes a few months ago. Readings were all in line with my tests and nothing stood out as an issue.

Skimmer and fuge. Not running chemical po4 remover right now. Cuc is crabs, snails.

I'd seriously consider running some gfo while you get phosphate in check. You may also benefit from adding some big chestnut turbo s snails. Your tank is large enough that they won't be an eyesore and they eat gha like nobody's business. Let them clean the rock and let gfo pull out the phosphate from their waste. Also consider vibrant. I was skeptical but honest I've had insanely good results.

 

[jt8791]

Just an idea, replace the chaeto for macros your fish will eat and just toss what you would harvest into the tank instead of dried seaweed. Might be more efficient, especially if you have had Dino’s a few times.

Chaeto tends to work too well, I tossed mine after I got Dino’s, just threw two handfuls of sea lettuce in one fuge, three handfuls of red ogo in the other and a handful in the tank.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I would guess your issue is an imbalance with nutrients in vs nutrients out. To me, 3 cubes a day sounds like a lot. Its not about eating in less then 2 minutes, the food gets eaten but it just turns into poop, its still in the system. Wether with filtration or water changes, you are not pulling the nutrients out of the water as fast as you are adding them in.

 

[Biff0rz]

I'd seriously consider running some gfo while you get phosphate in check. You may also benefit from adding some big chestnut turbo s snails. Your tank is large enough that they won't be an eyesore and they eat gha like nobody's business. Let them clean the rock and let gfo pull out the phosphate from their waste. Also consider vibrant. I was skeptical but honest I've had insanely good results.

I've considered the gfo route, but doesn't that compensate an imbalance?

I would guess your issue is an imbalance with nutrients in vs nutrients out. To me, 3 cubes a day sounds like a lot. Its not about eating in less then 2 minutes, the food gets eaten but it just turns into poop, its still in the system. Wether with filtration or water changes, you are not pulling the nutrients out of the water as fast as you are adding them in.

This is what I was thinking it probably is. Well it's 2 cubes now but they go through it pretty darn fast. I'd say each fish gets maybe 4-5 pieces each. I've been considering a larger skimmer, do you think that would help?

 

[Chrisv.]

Your no3 is fine and your po4 is high. Gfo will drop the po4 restoring balance.

 

[BiggestE22]

Man, this tank is killing me. I've gone through so many different phases of it and I'm seemingly making little to no progress.

First, I did the normal cycle. Then I got a small bit of Dino, nothing drastic. I added a UV sterilizer. Then I got some GHA, Cyano, and it got really bad. I was very much over-feeding. I decided to use chemiclean to get rid of the cyano and it worked great! ...until Dinos came back with a vengeance. I've been fighting them for a good 3mo with a nasty bout of GHA. Based on advice in the dino thread I used fluconazole to treat the gha then I took mitigation steps against the dino. The dino has finally been suppressed (never gone) but now the tank is breaking out in Cyano really bad again! It's been a year and this is driving me nuts. The last thing I want to do right now is use chemiclean and cause another dino outbreak...cyano is bad but dino is way worse. Dino wiped out all of my corals except for a ric mushroom. I've been keeping things really stable as far as alk/ca/mg/no3/po4/ph. I've since tried to reduce nutrients further-
I used to overfeed and have since started using cubes exclusively. I fed 3 cubes/day all through dino. Since I've seen cyano popping up I started skimming more aggressively and feeding only 2 cubes a day - I also refreshed my T5 bulbs as they were 1yr old. I have 3 tangs so I do feed them nori and I've cut down on that too. I used to feed 1 sheet/day and now I'm down to 1/4 sheet every 2 days. The fish are getting quite aggressive with feeding because when I do feed, it lasts about 30s-1m in the water and it's under that 2m sweet spot. At this point I'm not really sure what to do. I know cyano is a bacteria and I can use chemicals to remove it but I really fear going back to dino land. Maybe my tank is over stocked? I don't think so, but who knows?
4" purple
3" yellow
4.5" naso
2" mandarin
1" clown
2" blue face angel
3" potters angel
3" blue throat trigger
4" copperbanded butterfly
3" leopard wrasse
lots of hermits/snails

233g tank, 50g sump, filter roller, skimmer, refugium w/chaeto

params-
Sg 35ppt / 78*
no3 7-9ppm (non comp) - w/no2 compensation 5ppm / no2 ~.025
po4 0.13 (trying dang hard to reduce this)
ca 500
mg 1450
Alk 7.4 (+/- .15)
Ph 7.8-8.15

Things I do regularly trying to keep dino and cyano at bay-
blow off rocks (bi-daily), vacuum sandbed (every 2 wks), dose microbacter7/mb clean w UV/Skimmer off for 4 hours (bi-daily).

Thoughts?

Coral food really helps cyano. Once I stopped “feeding” the tank it disappeared. Well I also reconnected my algae reactor for a while.

 

[BiggestE22]

I’m buying about 20 snails and 30 red hermits do in can start adding a little food again.

 

[Biff0rz]

Coral food really helps cyano. Once I stopped “feeding” the tank it disappeared. Well I also reconnected my algae reactor for a while.

I'm not feeding corals.

Your no3 is fine and your po4 is high. Gfo will drop the po4 restoring balance.

Won't that only be temporary? Ie if I turn off the gfo won't it just rise again?

 

[Chrisv.]

I'm not feeding corals.


Won't that only be temporary? Ie if I turn off the gfo won't it just rise again?

It will return, if you add it. It could also be leaching from rocks or something in a relatively new tank. Many people run gfo full time. As long as you don't bottom out your po4, it's okay to do this. Just keep measuring. And while we're on the topic of po4 tests, use a Hanna checker if you don't already.

 

[Biff0rz]

It will return, if you add it. It could also be leaching from rocks or something in a relatively new tank. Many people run gfo full time. As long as you don't bottom out your po4, it's okay to do this. Just keep measuring. And while we're on the topic of po4 tests, use a Hanna checker if you don't already.

Yea, I have a Hanna and various other tests. I also have a mastertronic and will test po4 daily with it.

 

[Chrisv.]

That's great! Testing is half the battle! I run gfo long term and I have not had issues. The other option for chemical removal is lanthanum chloride. That's less useful for long term in my experience.

 

[Pistondog]

3 cubes does not seem excessive for your tank and bioload. Your nutrients are fine. Have you tried carbon dosing? This with weekly mb7 might outcompete the cyano.
How is your chaeto growing?
Did you start with dry rock or live rock. If dry rock you might consider getting some real live rock from the gulf to add bacteria. Most claim fewer problems with some live rock.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Nothing like rehashed internet info one after another

 

[Biff0rz]

Nothing like rehashed internet info one after another

Huh?

 

[vtecintegra]

Not just you because I see it all the time. Feeding the fish very little trying to control nutrients. That's like the city sewer telling you to skip meals because you're taking a dump too much. Two cubes for that many and size of fish is very low in my opinion. I have a tang and it can eat a half cube per feeding by itself. And I feed two, sometimes three times per day. Three tangs, two angels, trigger, and copper band should be getting more, not less. If nutrients are too high, then inadequate filtration is the problem. However, the numbers aren't really that far out of line. .1 and 10 are commonly accepted. Dinos generally show up when the numbers bottom or there is no competition. Cyano can be easily siphoned out. Get some more snails to keep the algae in check. What's happening is somewhat normal up to a year. I don't know, but it sounds like a tank started with dry rock and sand. I started a tank like that with scrubber from day one. Dinos exploded so bad they were unbeatable. Next tank got live sand out of the gulf and I've had only minor issues with algae. Turbos are big and bulky, but they clear big areas at a time. I don't like live rock for the pest, but sand and the diversity kits from IPSF are good for getting competition in the tank to keep the dinos at bay. I don't put a lot of faith in MB7 for situations like this. It's a handful of nitrifiers, when a well rounded biome is dozens of different bacterias. Good luck. Don't give up yet, but feed those fish!