I want what you guys do in freshwater!

[Dvt81]

Hey all. A little help would be very much appreciated.

I have a near 400 gallon Malawi tank that is getting set up in the next 10 days.

I want to add reactors to my system and basically take as much of the stuff you guys in the SW side of the hobby do into my set up where I can.

So... Dosing- vodka/vinegar/ sugar... Do they work in FW? My ph just now is at 8.8 will dosing effect that? If not then are dosing levels the same in SW as in FW? Can't be bothered having 80 drunk aggressive peacocks in the tank

Bio pellets work in a FW system?

My idea is to set up with 6 reactors, 1 purigen, 1 phosban, 1 bio pellet, 1 bionitrate-ex, 1 carbon and 1 on possibly kalkwasser but I'm unsure.

I'm also looking to add a dosing setup as part of the system with trace elements, vodka/vinegar etc if this would work.

If anyone can help me I'd be very grateful.

As much info as possible would be great.

Remember this is a Malawi messy tank that going to be packed with fish... My sump I have redesigned so water flows into 200 micron socks which drops down to 150 then into a 100 micron and eventually comes out at 50 micron where it hits the K1 chamber then into biological chamber and a mini regufim style sitting in an acrylic box before polishing pads and return chamber .
Many thanks

Marco

 

[Sorcha2]

No offense but seems like a lot of work for no return. Malawi aren't going to need anything near that set up and the levels are quite a bit different. The more complicated freshwater set ups are generally black water tanks.

 

[Peace River]

I suggest that you focus on water parameters instead of equipment. Through the regular use of quality test kits and occasionally sending water samples to a lab (such as ICP- Analysis) you can find what changes need to be made. Additionally, consider biological, mechanical, and chemical filtration options (it seems like you are already doing this). One specific equipment comment that I will throw out - because your plant options are highly limited in a Malawi tank, you may want to consider a algae reactor or a turf scrubber. Good luck!

 

[LadyMac]

You shouldn’t need all that. Just a good water change schedule. As far as I know the vodka dosing and such won’t have any effect for the positive side of things.

 

[Chefwheredyougo]

+1 ladymac

 

[Hermie]

Here's something you can add... an auto water change system!

The big difference between Reef Tanks and a FW Tank (hard water) is that Reef Tanks have corals+ a lot of other life with specific water parameter needs whereas the FW cannot host those same organisms and the water won't need the same parameters to host Fish only.

So dosing trace elements for example... that's for corals. Fish don't need many outside of their nutritional needs.
Kalkwasser is dosed becaused the calcium in the water is used up by corals and other organic processes that would not occur in a freshwater tank.

 

[LisaMarie]

I have a Malawi tank also. No need for any of those things. Water changes and good filtration are pretty much it! Tank always looks stunning and the fish are super friendly.......like puppy dogs under water.

 

[Silent]

If you had a planted tank then you could get into more of the trace stuff and CO2 reactor and freshwaters version of a reef tank so to speak. No need with your fish though.

 

[Dvt81]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'm a little OCD about certain things hence my insistence on reactors etc and going way over the top.

And why I've designed by filters socks to be in a pyramid system above the sump etc.

However on my current system which is 75g I have little algae issues which on my new monster I don't want at all. So that's my thinking behind alot of this.

Most use puirgen and carbon anyway I just wanted them in rectors so it looks the part, also my cabinet will be open with some lighting for my inbox refugium... So not only will my tank look the business the under side will look very industrial.

My other issue is doing water changes on this... An auto water change isn't going to fit into the house I'm afraid.. the wife won't have it. She's had enough with this one without me adding more DIY to the house . So having to do 50% changes a week aren't something I'm planning on doing.

I believe and think I could get me water changes down to a very low level and that's my aim in all of this.

My water is measured every week and recorded everyweek with the NT lab kit and that won't change.

What would be the issue with dosing vodka/vinegar/sugar in FW? Can't find any real info online- maybe that in itself is a reason but I don't think many have went to these lengths on a Malawi system either.

Many thanks

Marco

 

[Hermie]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'm a little OCD about certain things hence my insistence on reactors etc and going way over the top.

And why I've designed by filters socks to be in a pyramid system above the sump etc.

However on my current system which is 75g I have little algae issues which on my new monster I don't want at all. So that's my thinking behind alot of this.

Most use puirgen and carbon anyway I just wanted them in rectors so it looks the part, also my cabinet will be open with some lighting for my inbox refugium... So not only will my tank look the business the under side will look very industrial.

My other issue is doing water changes on this... An auto water change isn't going to fit into the house I'm afraid.. the wife won't have it. She's had enough with this one without me adding more DIY to the house . So having to do 50% changes a week aren't something I'm planning on doing.

I believe and think I could get me water changes down to a very low level and that's my aim in all of this.

My water is measured every week and recorded everyweek with the NT lab kit and that won't change.

What would be the issue with dosing vodka/vinegar/sugar in FW? Can't find any real info online- maybe that in itself is a reason but I don't think many have went to these lengths on a Malawi system either.

Many thanks

Marco

• No harm in going the extra miles for your fish/tank's success
  
  
• On your 75 gallon, what type of tank, is it planted, are there any snails/algae eaters?
  
  
• The reason to reduce water changes in Saltwater is because, theoretically, replacing "good water" with "good water" is generally pointless. However there are some things in Saltwater systems that cannot work in freshwater (which means the "good water" is not going to be as "good" as that in a SW tank), namely:
  -Skimmers (need a "high" specific gravity/salinity to achieve a functional skimmer)
  -Macro algae nutrient export via chaetomorpha, refugiums or algae-turf-scrubbers

Could you add some plants or some kind of refugium plumbed in? The refugium could house java moss (of any species/genus). There are very few conventional Saltwater tanks that I've "read about" that are successful without either/both skimmers and macro algaes/refugiums. Some methods like Zeovit might be more what would work for you, have you looked that up? Basically you could use Zeolites in your tank to bind ammonia (reducing nitrates), however you'd have to handle the phosphates somehow.

 

[Dvt81]

• No harm in going the extra miles for your fish/tank's success
  
  
• On your 75 gallon, what type of tank, is it planted, are there any snails/algae eaters?
  
  
• The reason to reduce water changes in Saltwater is because, theoretically, replacing "good water" with "good water" is generally pointless. However there are some things in Saltwater systems that cannot work in freshwater (which means the "good water" is not going to be as "good" as that in a SW tank), namely:
  -Skimmers (need a "high" specific gravity/salinity to achieve a functional skimmer)
  -Macro algae nutrient export via chaetomorpha, refugiums or algae-turf-scrubbers

Could you add some plants or some kind of refugium plumbed in? The refugium could house java moss (of any species/genus). There are very few conventional Saltwater tanks that I've "read about" that are successful without either/both skimmers and macro algaes/refugiums. Some methods like Zeovit might be more what would work for you, have you looked that up? Basically you could use Zeolites in your tank to bind ammonia (reducing nitrates), however you'd have to handle the phosphates somehow.

My current tank is Malawi I'm just upgrading the guys to a larger tank, zeolite is something I have looked at and could go with. I'm open to what would be best as you guys are a step above us guys in the FW world imo.

The refugium is in a separate box that's clipped on the side of sump above the bio logical chamber in the sump... I'm planning on trying it out with ivy and see if that benefits.. if it doesn't I can just pull it out without upsetting anything in the system.

I don't like adding to many other non native species into the aquarium if you get me... And I don't like snails that much either so hence my issue in getting rid of algae.

The scrubbers I have looked at are really on the dear point.. I was quoted as needing 3 on my system at around 400.00 pounds each.

 

[csb123]

If you want to try stuff and have the money, go for it. The one thing is protein skimmers don’t form the tiny bubbles in fresh water as they do in salt water. I am a koi keeper and have seen protein skimmers designed for fresh water, and their performance is lack luster, so they are not widely used. So when it comes to carbon dosing (vodka/vinegar/NOPOX), you are trying to fertilize bacteria which are subsequently removed by the protein skimmer.

The one thing that would reduce maintenance is automatic water changes. No more bucket hauling!

 

[Dvt81]

If you want to try stuff and have the money, go for it. The one thing is protein skimmers don’t form the tiny bubbles in fresh water as they do in salt water. I am a koi keeper and have seen protein skimmers designed for fresh water, and their performance is lack luster, so they are not widely used. So when it comes to carbon dosing (vodka/vinegar/NOPOX), you are trying to fertilize bacteria which are subsequently removed by the protein skimmer.

The one thing that would reduce maintenance is automatic water changes. No more bucket hauling!

Now we are getting into the nitty gritty! Would dosing in FW give off the same elements as it does in SW? Would that still happen or if I did dose would the other forms of filtration pick these up?

Thanks!

 

[Dvt81]

Sorry I'll reword that... Would dosing in FW give of the same bacteria as it does in SW which would then removed by a skimmer in a SW set up

 

[Hermie]

The refugium is in a separate box that's clipped on the side of sump above the bio logical chamber in the sump... I'm planning on trying it out with ivy and see if that benefits.. if it doesn't I can just pull it out without upsetting anything in the system.

What species of Ivy, and have you grown that before in an aquatic environment? If it's not a display refugium, I would try a tissue cultured species of some type of moss. That way you won't get any hitchhikers with the plant.

 

[Hermie]

Sorry I'll reword that... Would dosing in FW give of the same bacteria as it does in SW which would then removed by a skimmer in a SW set up

What would you be using instead of a skimmer? Purigen? You would need micron filtration IMO to remove bacteria without a skimmer. But even then, the bacteria could breakdown once it enters the filter and that breakdown would reenter the water column. The thing about Skimmers is that they are constantly removing bacteria: there is no way for the bacteria to reenter the water once it's removed (it's bubbled out into a separate container).

 

[Peace River]

What species of Ivy, and you grown that before in an aquatic environment? If it's not a display refugium, I would try a tissue cultured species of some type of moss. That way you won't get any hitchhikers with the plant.

+1

I suggest that you look at Java moss, Christmas moss, elodea (sometimes sold as anacharis), or hornwort.

 

[W1ngz]

The chemistry in a freshwater system is completely different, as are the approaches. Only the basic fundamentals are the same. I definitely understand needing to appease the gear junky aspect though.

I can see the advantage of having a sump and overflow, it keeps things like heaters out of the main tank.

You can still have dosing, for fertilizers and elements that are taken up by plants. I'm not sure if this will vary depending on which plants you have, unlike corals where mostly they all use the same three elements and traces.

The equivalent of a calcium reactor would be a CO2 reactor. Something else that would be nicely hidden down below in the water flow.

I'm unaware if plants use carbon dosing the same way it's used in a reef. Plants get their carbon from CO2 in the water, which keeps the ph closer to neutral, which is good for plants. In a reef we don't use CO2 because we need the higher pH.

Skimmers are used to limit leftover biosolids in the water, because we don't want nitrates to be out of control in the water. For a planted tank, nitrogen (in the form of nitrates, nitrite and even ammonia) is used by plants constantly. You'll rarely find them out of control in a balanced, healthy planted tank because the biotope naturally consumes them.

 

[Hermie]

The chemistry in a freshwater system is completely different, as are the approaches. Only the basic fundamentals are the same. I definitely understand needing to appease the gear junky aspect though.

I can see the advantage of having a sump and overflow, it keeps things like heaters out of the main tank.
You can still have dosing, for fertilizers and elements that are taken up by plants. I'm not sure if this will vary depending on which plants you have, unlike corals where mostly they all use the same three elements and traces.
The equivalent of a calcium reactor would be a CO2 reactor. Something else that would be nicely hidden down below in the water flow.
I'm unaware if plants use carbon dosing the same way it's used in a reef. Plants get their carbon from CO2 in the water, which keeps the ph closer to neutral, which is good for plants. In a reef we don't use CO2 because we need the higher pH.

The thing is that Malawi Cichlids need a high pH. So if he is doing CO2 it's going to reduce the pH. That pH range (and water hardness) is also why many FW plants will struggle.

^And this is one big reason I jumped from Brackish to full Marine. Many more plant/algae options available.

 

[mrpizzaface]

The best way to manage algae, is to have a balanced tank. Algae is generally due to too many nutrients or too much light or a combination of both. Consistent 50% water changes will provide far more benefit, than carbon or purigen.
If you have a sump I would dispense with a hang on refugium, and grow stem plants directly in the sump.