I Was Wrong

[Doctorgori]

... And it's far easier to build out EV infrastructure in Scandanavia. I'm simply trying to get across that any logistical challenges in Europe pail in comparison to North America.

Yes and its also more than that, Europe has a different political profile also … My Brown bear population analogy per country clearly shows that …

 

[blaxsun]

Yes and its also more than that, Europe has a different political profile also … My Brown bear population analogy per country clearly shows that …

You'll have to re-link that. Sounds interesting...

 

[jabberwock]

Well they're on to bashing EVs, but anyway, he doesn't understand what PPM is. Hard to have a conversation about global warming if you can't understand simple concepts like PPM, or why you get a different answer from a 60 year old scientist and a 30 year old scientists when you ask them about climate change 'within their lifetime'.

I deal with multiple unit conversions everyday at work. I understand PPM very well. It is not a difficult concept. 400 out of 1,000,000. See all those zeroes?

Who is 60 and who is 30?

 

[jabberwock]

This is what have happens during my lifetime - 1950 - 310 ppm CO2; 2023 420 ppm CO2. If you want to see a table for CO2, CH4 and N2O concentrations in the air from 1750 to 2018 - please see here

Sincerely Lasse

Yep, 200 ppm increase is not a big deal...

 

[rhizotron]

Watch the entire video. It's eye-opening.

If you feel like you have to make an appeal to a murderous, genocidal, Communist dictator who betrayed the memory of his own family to support your argument, it may be time to reevaluate your position. Who do you think you're going to convince with that?

Whenever I hear Xi Jinping cheerleaders claim "Chinese people can't handle freedom" the only conclusion I can draw is that they must not think much of Chinese people.

 

[KrisReef]

You're back to that. It's not '3 trillion cubic tons'; it's not a drop of pee. It's 421 ppm.

First off; your math is wrong and not even using the correct units.

Second; nobody is arguing about how much 0.04% of the atmosphere is. Yes, we know it's a very small percentage of the atmosphere. Yes, we know adding another 0.04% doesn't feel like it will have an impact. But it does. I honestly don't know how someone can run a reef tank and not understand this. If you really think 400 ppm is so dilute as to not matter lets go ahead and add ONE PPM of something to your reef tank. Why don't we try copper? It will only take 15 drops in a 200 gallon tank to reach 1ppm. But it's so dilute it won't do anything, right? After everything dies, imagine adding 6,000 more drops. That's still only 400 ppm, less than the co2 content of the atmosphere. For goodness sake we measure phosphate and ammonia and a dozen other things in concentrations less than a single ppm and panic.

And if you insist on sticking with the disgusting comparison, that's 6,000 drops of pee in a single 200 gallon tank. You have the tools to measure this in your kitchen - it's 1 and a quarter cups of pee. In a single tank.

So just how much co2 is in the atmosphere? Each ppm represents 7.82 gigatonnes; and as of 2022 the concentration was 421 ppm. That's 3,292 gigatonnes. And a third of that has been added since the mid 1800s alone.




This is propaganda from the corporations doing the polluting. They want you to feel guilty so that you blame yourself instead of them. Remember shows like Captain Planet?

Can we compare Magnesium ppm vs Calcium to improve the discussion on insignificance of ~400 ppm? Using copper is like using plutonium and it stresses toxicity instead of concentrations.


Of course, CO2 is a gas a copper is a metal. Such deflections are not useful for finding the truth of a matter. Why deflect?

Can anyone remember that one volcanic eruption can easily add more CO2 to the atmosphere than our industrial progress does. I don't know if you can save the planet but one good volcanic eruption will extinct all of us faster than we can convert to battery power. The same eruption will throw so much dust into the atmosphere we wont be able to use our solar panels for awhile either. But wind power, that explosion should generate one heck of a wind locally, so its not all a wash.

I'm going to take my Barbies and go back to reefing now. :cool: So much plastic, could stop up a volcano with them?

So next we can compare eruptions? :face-with-hand-over-mouth: Rock on.

 

[Doctorgori]

@blaxsun
Worth mentioning that this is a aquarium (reef) forum… but since you asked

While this lil factoid seems unimportant/irrelevant IMO it does highlight European attitude towards wildlife/conservation vs American political influence therein …

Bearing in mind this is the same species, so when you factor in area and population density, the American political influence on wildlife and conservation law/attitude is distressing … Also bear in mind how long Europe has been civilized and living with wildlife vs, the wave of slaughter/extinction wave that followed colonization of the North American continent within 3 centuries

Eurasian Brown Bear
There are believed to be over 100,000 brown bears in Russia, about 36,000 of which are in in European Russia. Elsewhere in Europe there are a total of around 17,000 brown bears, around 5,000 to 6,000 of these being found in the Carpathian Mountains area of Romania, the largest single population outside Russia.

Brown Bear population in Alaska and lower 48 states:

Alaska	30,000
Idaho	80-100
Montana	1,800-2,000
Washington	500
Wyoming	600

If you discount Alaska, the numbers are saddening

 

[Lavey29]

If you feel like you have to make an appeal to a murderous, genocidal, Communist dictator who betrayed the memory of his own family to support your argument, it may be time to reevaluate your position. Who do you think you're going to convince with that?

Whenever I hear Xi Jinping cheerleaders claim "Chinese people can't handle freedom" the only conclusion I can draw is that they must not think much of Chinese people.

That speech is spot on right.

 

[Doctorgori]

@KrisReef … indeed …and I’ve always thought about this…
heck 2-3 good eruptions and no amount of electric vehicles will make a dang bit of difference

 

[blaxsun]

If you feel like you have to make an appeal to a murderous, genocidal, Communist dictator who betrayed the memory of his own family to support your argument, it may be time to reevaluate your position. Who do you think you're going to convince with that?

Whenever I hear Xi Jinping cheerleaders claim "Chinese people can't handle freedom" the only conclusion I can draw is that they must not think much of Chinese people.

Wow. You missed the point entirely... This has nothing to do with being a "Xi Jinping cheerleader" (your words, not mine), but rather the stark reality that people can't and don't want to live in poverty and are going to do whatever to better themselves and their children (and they don't or won't have the luxury of "going green").

Why do you think fish are collected with cyanide? Why do you think people fish with drift nets? What about scavenging warship graves in the South/Indo-Pacific? One can be morally opposed (and even outraged) with these acts, but understanding the reasons why (without condoning them) is more important.

 

[rhizotron]

Wow. You missed the point entirely... This has nothing to do with being a "Xi Jinping cheerleader" (your words, not mine), but rather the stark reality that people can't and don't want to live in poverty and are going to do whatever to better themselves and their children (and they don't or won't have the luxury of "going green").

Why do you think fish are collected with cyanide? Why do you think people fish with drift nets? What about scavenging warship graves in the South/Indo-Pacific? One can be morally opposed (and even outraged) with these acts, but understanding the reasons why (without condoning them) is more important.

No. I really didn't miss the point. I've heard this kind of specious justification for just doing whatever you want a million times already, so I recognize it when I see it.

 

[blaxsun]

No. I really didn't miss the point.

Well, when your only comment is "Xi Jinping cheerleaders " - you really don't. So respectfully, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Lavey29]

No. I really didn't miss the point. I've heard this kind of specious justification for just doing whatever you want a million times already, so I recognize it when I see it.

Yea you did just like the rest of the people.

 

[blaxsun]

While this lil factoid seems unimportant/irrelevant IMO it does highlight European attitude towards wildlife/conservation vs American political influence therein …

Bearing in mind this is the same species, so when you factor in area and population density, the American political influence on wildlife and conservation law/attitude is distressing … Also bear in mind how long Europe has been civilized and living with wildlife vs, the wave of slaughter/extinction wave that followed colonization of the North American continent within 3 centuries

Eurasian Brown Bear
There are believed to be over 100,000 brown bears in Russia, about 36,000 of which are in in European Russia. Elsewhere in Europe there are a total of around 17,000 brown bears, around 5,000 to 6,000 of these being found in the Carpathian Mountains area of Romania, the largest single population outside Russia.

Brown Bear population in Alaska and lower 48 states:

Alaska	30,000
Idaho	80-100
Montana	1,800-2,000
Washington	500
Wyoming	600

If you discount Alaska, the numbers are saddening

Not to put too fine a point on it, but brown bears originated in Asia - so it makes perfect sense that there would be a lot more of them in Eurasia. The countries with the largest brown bear populations in the world are (drum roll)...

1. Russia (~120,000).
2. USA (~32,500, of which something like ~30,000 are in Alaska).
3. Canada (~25,000).
4. Europe (~14,000, ranging from Spain to Scandanavia; Romania has the most at ~5,000-6,000).
5. Japan (~2,000-3,000).

So from a conservation standpoint, both the US and Canada are doing quite well (considering the bears didn't originate here and crossed over the Bering Strait). And brown bears aren't exactly the type (unlike coyotes and other smaller predators) to routinely venture into urban or even rurally populated areas - preferring to stay in "the wild". Russia, Alaska and Canada have large open tracks of untouched wilderness for bears to proliferate in.

 

[rhizotron]

Well, when your only comment is "Xi Jinping cheerleaders " - you really don't. So respectfully, we'll have to agree to disagree.

That wasn't my only comment, it is relevant to my point, and I don't have to agree to anything.

 

[blaxsun]

That wasn't my only comment, it is relevant to my point, and I don't have to agree to anything.

If your mind is already made up, why even participate in the discussion? :grinning-face-with-smiling-eyes:

 

[blecki]

Volcanoes. Really. Now it's okay to pollute because of volcanoes?

And you completely made it up too. We emit way more than all the volcanoes combined. Look what I found doing less than five minutes of that 'independent research' people love so much:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...2-does-a-single-volcano-emit/?sh=3d26c8085cbf
> In fact, even if we include the rare, very large volcanic eruptions, like 1980's Mount St. Helens or 1991's Mount Pinatubo eruption, they only emitted 10 and 50 million tons of CO2 each, respectively. It would take three Mount St. Helens and one Mount Pinatubo eruption every day to equal the amount that humanity is presently emitting.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-volcanoes-co2-emissions-383647479337
> “There is no truth to that,” said Tobias Fischer, a volcanologist at the University of New Mexico. “If you take all the emissions that all volcanoes together produce in a given year, it’s much smaller than what humans emit in a given year. And that’s been shown many times.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...2-emissions-than-human-activity-idUSL1N2XV1HA
> Simon Carn, Professor of Geological and Mining Engineering and Sciences at Michigan Technological University, concurred and said the best estimates for Mt. Etna’s volcanic CO2 emissions are at “~3 million tons per year.” “Hence Etna’s CO2 emissions are roughly ~0.01% of anthropogenic emissions in a typical year. A single eruption of Etna would emit much less CO2, and so the percentage would be even smaller.”

https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
> While higher than Gerlach's estimate, the figure is still just a fraction of carbon dioxide output from human activities. Gerlach remarked via email, “Taken at face value, their result implies that anthropogenic CO2 exceeds global volcanic CO2 by at least a factor of 60 times.”

You also probably think volcanic eruptions are rare things. In reality there are about 20 active eruptions every single day.

We - that is, US, HUMANS, emit 1% of the current atmospheric content of co2 every year. It doesn't go away. It piles up year after year.

Of course, CO2 is a gas a copper is a metal. Such deflections are not useful for finding the truth of a matter. Why deflect?

Volcanoes, but I'm the one deflecting?

You want to compare co2 to co2 then? You ever run a co2 scrubber? To remove co2 from the water? Why would anyone do that if it's harmless? Go ahead and start running some co2 on your reef tank. There are plenty of cheap co2 rigs out there for planted tanks, get one of them. Lets see how long your corals last when the PH is 7.5.

 

[Pneumatic_Addict]

Couple weeks back I posted a thread bashing the 101 degree water temperature recorded in the Florida Keys. I blew it off as headlines and thought the corals would be fine in their heavy flow environment. I was wrong. I’ve been diving the last few days in the keys and it’s sad to say there’s a lot of white Coral. More white corals than colored ones. Everything is bleached. The most concerning part is that big corals are bleached. Corals that took years to grow are now dead.

Decades man. Yeah it’s pretty sad. We had a fun little trip planned for mini season and canceled.

Heard Alligator is just torched…..

 

[jabberwock]

Volcanoes. Really. Now it's okay to pollute because of volcanoes?

And you completely made it up too. We emit way more than all the volcanoes combined. Look what I found doing less than five minutes of that 'independent research' people love so much:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...2-does-a-single-volcano-emit/?sh=3d26c8085cbf
> In fact, even if we include the rare, very large volcanic eruptions, like 1980's Mount St. Helens or 1991's Mount Pinatubo eruption, they only emitted 10 and 50 million tons of CO2 each, respectively. It would take three Mount St. Helens and one Mount Pinatubo eruption every day to equal the amount that humanity is presently emitting.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-volcanoes-co2-emissions-383647479337
> “There is no truth to that,” said Tobias Fischer, a volcanologist at the University of New Mexico. “If you take all the emissions that all volcanoes together produce in a given year, it’s much smaller than what humans emit in a given year. And that’s been shown many times.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...2-emissions-than-human-activity-idUSL1N2XV1HA
> Simon Carn, Professor of Geological and Mining Engineering and Sciences at Michigan Technological University, concurred and said the best estimates for Mt. Etna’s volcanic CO2 emissions are at “~3 million tons per year.” “Hence Etna’s CO2 emissions are roughly ~0.01% of anthropogenic emissions in a typical year. A single eruption of Etna would emit much less CO2, and so the percentage would be even smaller.”

https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
> While higher than Gerlach's estimate, the figure is still just a fraction of carbon dioxide output from human activities. Gerlach remarked via email, “Taken at face value, their result implies that anthropogenic CO2 exceeds global volcanic CO2 by at least a factor of 60 times.”

You also probably think volcanic eruptions are rare things. In reality there are about 20 active eruptions every single day.

We - that is, US, HUMANS, emit 1% of the current atmospheric content of co2 every year. It doesn't go away. It piles up year after year.


Volcanoes, but I'm the one deflecting?

You want to compare co2 to co2 then? You ever run a co2 scrubber? To remove co2 from the water? Why would anyone do that if it's harmless? Go ahead and start running some co2 on your reef tank. There are plenty of cheap co2 rigs out there for planted tanks, get one of them. Lets see how long your corals last when the PH is 7.5.

Is emitting CO2 polluting???

 

[blaxsun]

Is emitting CO2 polluting???

Cattle are the #1 agricultural source of greenhouse gas emissions worldwide.
Save the Planet - Eat a steak. :grinning-face-with-smiling-eyes: