Ich had ruined this hobby.

lolmatt

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I started a 180g about a year ago, upgrading from a 40 (via a 125 tank my fish spent some time in), and ich just popped up on my purple tang yesterday and is showing on a few other fish today (tusk maybe, desjardini and blue tangs probably, still not 100% confirmed ich as it's not PERFECTLY grainy like I'm used to seeing, but that's probably me being over hopeful).

All my fish from the 40/125 went through ttm prior to entering the 180, and every added fish since has spent at least 4 weeks in careful observation, usually in another established tank of mine (a 20 long for a while, nuvo 10, few others that have come and gone). I've had dreadful luck with medicated qt, lost 10+ fish in sterile tanks with just pvc, and until now the observation-only (treating as needed) had worked well. Fish are healthy, corals recently started growing, all was well or so I thought.

In the past 6 weeks or so, I added a few corals from macna, a couple things I traded for, and a tiny juvenile bristletooth tang that spent a month in the 10g with no signs of disease. Ich could have come in on anything here.

As a fairly active hobbiest, I've taken some steps to avoid sick fish, but days like today make me wonder how other less dedicated people avoid ich and other common diseases and parasites. Maybe they're lucky. Maybe I have bad luck. Maybe it's not ich (lol I doubt it). I have this dream to keep an awesome reef tank, but maybe it just isn't meant to be.

So the way I see it, I've got 3 options:
- Feed extra and try ich management, with it flaring up every time I have a stress inducing problem, try my best and see what dies. Maybe it'll be OK. I doubt it. This sounds like a nightmare.
- Somehow catch the 20 or so fish I have, half of which are burying wrasses, treat them one way or another, and leave the tank fishless for 11 weeks. My rocks are half glued, tank has a good amount of coral, and I really don't have a place in my home to house 20 fish for so long. This sounds like a nightmare.
- Get out of the hobby and let someone else deal with it. Having spent thousands on setting everything up, countless hours planning and building, this too sounds like a nightmare.

And it's not like the problem goes away after doing this. I had hoped to add a few more fish at some point, maybe replace a few of the easier to catch with something new. If the simple act of adding anything without over medicating (fish) or sitting it in a tank for 11 weeks where it likely will die (coral) means getting disease, I'm probably out.

GG cryptocaryon irritans. You win no matter what I end up doing.
 

Saltyreef

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Ich can sometimes sneak thru TTM. Its risky. And velvet dont even think about it!
Ive had 100% success with copper power in a 10gallon tank with up to 4 fish at a time.
You may want to remove your finned friends into some QT tanks or one large one, treat with @HotRocks protocol and leave your display fallow for 90 days with inverts and coral in place. Also try not to buy anymore coral in 3 months. That was the hardest part for me. My tank was fallow for 4 months cause im weak and caved a couple times lol.
 
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lolmatt

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The fish that went through ttm have been in the tank for 9 months. Almost certainly came in via a recent addition.
 
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lolmatt

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I've read 10s of posts and articles on treating and identifying diseases, ttm is one of the best ways to treat ich from what I've read, if done correctly which I'm quite sure it was. Velvet has a 12 hour "hatch" time versus 72 for ich, allowing that to work.

I've got a mandarin I've never even seen outside of my rockwork, the treatment itself is nowhere near the hardest part of this situation. It's the catching of all the fish, destroying the rockwork in the process, 11 weeks of water changes and stressing fish in two 40g breeder tanks, and the ongoing battle...done properly means prophylactic treatment of every fish for any possible disease, 11 week fallow period for every new addition (so when I think I need more crabs, snails, shrimp, coral, whatever it is, they go in a tank for nearly 3 months, a tank that inevitably has poorer husbandry then the DT, I'd guess 50% survival rate for coral in there, less for sps).

We're talking hundreds of dollars just in salt for weekly (or more often) water changes, $100+ for two tanks. I just don't know if it's worth it.
 

RJKain-777

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Don’t worry, your not the only one. All my fish were happy and fine, all the sudden something popped up, which I thought was ich, but not to sure.

Any ways I’ve lost 15/20 fish now. Removed everything and put them in QT and treating with copper power. From now on I’m treating every fish regardless before it hits my tank, because like you I’ve got thousands invested.

My tangs all looked to have ich, same with my clowns. 2 days ago my little male died, yesterday, the female looked like this and died within an hour..

7F047441-A8A9-4C8C-98EB-8482E464B96D.jpeg
 

eea60123

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I’ve been in your shoes. I stuck with it and left the tank fallow for months. Catching fish is one of my least favorite things to do because they are so fast. I drained most of my water into bins to make it easier and most of my rock work survived. It changed the way I purchase and handle anything that goes in my tank. Most of my fish made it and my corals were fine because you don’t have to change anything you we’re doing before. Just keep your levels stable and without a host the ich will eventually fizzle out. I wish you the best and hope you stick with it.
 

Bob Weigant

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Not that this helps but I’ve been extremely fortunate not to have ick in 3 plus years. Some luck and careful picking out the fish from my LFS. If I see anything I don’t like I generally don’t grab it. Some fin rot but that’s about it. I’ve had ick in the past and I totally get the frustration. I honestly don’t think a lot of the meds don’t work. That’s just my opinion from trying them. I just use small amounts of copper do feed well and yes also cross my fingers
 

fishybizzness

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I'm sorry that you have to go through this.. all the reasons you mentioned above is why I chose to go the managed route, no long quarantine with multiple meds. Natural and live food, uv, ozone, sea whips and gorgonians and nsw. Ever since I went this route, I haven't had any losses.. It doesn't work for everyone, but I'm happy it's working for me so far.
 

Hair Algae Wizard

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Very sorry to hear about these issues guys. I hope perseverance shines through, and you guys don't abandon the hobby. I'm sure this is hard to deal with right now.

I had a kalk doser dump 2 gallons of itself into a tank once, and the entire tank crashed. I nearly gave up, but I hung in there, and re-built, and I'm glad I did.

I hope things work out!
 

Saltyreef

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Yea its a decision youll have to make based on what works best in your life right now.
It wasnt easy for me either. I was sure one of my new tiny clown gobies was somewhere in the tank or sump during my fallow period lol, but honestly ive never heard anyone who has had an issue after 14 days in copper at 2.5ppm.
The display is a lost cause if not made fallow too. No point in treating the fish if youre going to put them back into an infection prone enviornment.

I know its not what you wanted to hear but thats your best and safest option.
The coral QT is harder by a long shot yes and sps is likely to not do so good youre right. I think its important to have a basic setup for fish and inverts and a somewhat more complex system (lighting, keeping macros and nutrients in check) if wanting to quarantine sensitive sps.

For me, i decided to treat with copper, and never looked back. The only fish ive ever lost were in TTM or just in observation. Ive never lost a fish in copper yet.

I picked up a coral beauty angel that was twitching like she was on crack with white herpes spots everywhere and after 2 weeks in copper with 3 other fish she was right as rain after 14 days in copper transfered right into the DT. They were treated with GC and metro for the whole time along with copper power and no issues.
 

Saltyreef

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Don’t worry, your not the only one. All my fish were happy and fine, all the sudden something popped up, which I thought was ich, but not to sure.

Any ways I’ve lost 15/20 fish now. Removed everything and put them in QT and treating with copper power. From now on I’m treating every fish regardless before it hits my tank, because like you I’ve got thousands invested.

My tangs all looked to have ich, same with my clowns. 2 days ago my little male died, yesterday, the female looked like this and died within an hour..

7F047441-A8A9-4C8C-98EB-8482E464B96D.jpeg
Sorry for your loss. I went thru the same thing that led me to QT with meds 100% of the time. Lost a 4 year old blue tang after introducing an unquarantined kole tang to my system. Worst day of my life. She died in observation before i treated with meds. Was trying to play it safe but she needed more help than i could give. I think if i ever lose another life to my stupidity i may give up the hobby!!!! Not really but it makes me feel that way! Its tough to play God!
 

Saltyreef

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Not that this helps but I’ve been extremely fortunate not to have ick in 3 plus years. Some luck and careful picking out the fish from my LFS. If I see anything I don’t like I generally don’t grab it. Some fin rot but that’s about it. I’ve had ick in the past and I totally get the frustration. I honestly don’t think a lot of the meds don’t work. That’s just my opinion from trying them. I just use small amounts of copper do feed well and yes also cross my fingers
They say low concentration of copper does more harm than good. Usually keeps the parasite/disease at bay and undetectable until copper is stopped and it comes back full force. Something to that extent.
I would imagine it to work somewhat like chemotherapy.
 

KrisReef

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IF you still have the 125 you can easily catch most of the fish by draining water into that tank. You'll just need a brute trash can for another 40 gallons and you will have an inch or two of water to pick the fish out from. The hidden wrasses may be difficult, but it can be done. You might have to remove some of the sand or stir it with a stick but once they surface you should be able to net them.

Not much fun, but not impossible.

Pump the water back in after the ordeal, and take lots of pictures to document the trial.
 
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lolmatt

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I wonder how ppl not on the forums even keep anything alive. Without having a commercial qt protocol as good as a public aquarium, how can a reef tank be kept successfully long term? Without fail, you will get ich or velvet eventually if you don't qt everything with a fail proof qt protocol. I'd wager under 10% of the ppl on this forum qt inverts and coral, and the forum represents under 10% of reef tank keepers. Are 99% of people keeping tanks successfully? If others weren't, if fish got sick on the regular fish stores would never stay in business.
 
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lolmatt

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IF you still have the 125 you can easily catch most of the fish by draining water into that tank. You'll just need a brute trash can for another 40 gallons and you will have an inch or two of water to pick the fish out from. The hidden wrasses may be difficult, but it can be done. You might have to remove some of the sand or stir it with a stick but once they surface you should be able to net them.

Not much fun, but not impossible.

Pump the water back in after the ordeal, and take lots of pictures to document the trial.
The brute cans is actually a good idea. Maybe the fish would live in there for a while. The 125 is long gone. Thanks for the tip.
 

BayouReefer

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Sorry to hear about your issues. The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time! Hang in there, you got into this hobby I’m sure because of the joy creating a complete marine ecosystem in your home brings. I hope you stick with it and that your persistence brings you success.
 
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lolmatt

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Sorry to hear about your issues. The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time! Hang in there, you got into this hobby I’m sure because of the joy creating a complete marine ecosystem in your home brings. I hope you stick with it and that your persistence brings you success.
Thanks. My wife said the same thing..."if this was an easy hobby, everyone would do it"
 

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