Ich round 2!

JPR1212

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Hey everyone so here’s the situation. I had ich once, took all the fish out to qt. Had the display completely empty for 80 days. Put fish back in, guess what. Ich is back… haven’t added anything new and I’m 100% sure the fish being qt’d were ich free.

So now let me get into a little more specifics, the fish back in my display are a purple and yellow tang. They both eat like pigs and swim around a lot. Take Emphasis on their fat and love to eat!
So in terms of eating they’re good. But my concern mainly runs to the purple tang. He definitely has more white marks on him than the yellow for some reason. I’ll attach a photo if I get a chance to snag one later. But point being I don’t want to take out to qt again because that was a heck of a lot of work. I’m going more the management style this time I think. But back to my point. He’s got plenty of little white spots on him and I guess I’m just afraid that eventually they’ll get the best of him. What’s the thoughts that everyone has? He swims around, isn’t lethargic, and eats and eats anytime food hits the tank. I’m just wondering if feeding and eating will be enough to fend off the ich.

Thanks everyone!
 
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JPR1212

JPR1212

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And for the record the spots did seem worse last week. I’m running two separate uv sterilizers one in the display and one in the sump. One in the sump is a coralife supposedly good for 500gallons and one in the display is a 15w aquatop I believe. Here’s some photos of my buddy.
IMG_6941.jpeg
IMG_6940.jpeg
IMG_6939.jpeg
 

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And for the record the spots did seem worse last week. I’m running two separate uv sterilizers one in the display and one in the sump. One in the sump is a coralife supposedly good for 500gallons and one in the display is a 15w aquatop I believe. Here’s some photos of my buddy.
IMG_6941.jpeg
IMG_6940.jpeg
IMG_6939.jpeg
Pics are dark and blurry
Need clearer pics and even video using white light intensity
 

Jay Hemdal

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And for the record the spots did seem worse last week. I’m running two separate uv sterilizers one in the display and one in the sump. One in the sump is a coralife supposedly good for 500gallons and one in the display is a 15w aquatop I believe. Here’s some photos of my buddy.
IMG_6941.jpeg
IMG_6940.jpeg
IMG_6939.jpeg

Clearer pics under white light would help, but I think I can see some white spots on the fish's eye. For me, that confirms ich.

Breakthrough cases of ich are pretty common - there is always some breach in biosecurity that causes this, but you can't always figure out what it is. The 80 day fallow period would be more than enough, as long as no fish were in the tank for the entire period. Two other common ways the biosecurity fails is through bringing ich into the tank on a non-fish item that came from an infected tank. The other case would be some basic failure in the treatment that you used for the fish while there were out of the tank - how did you treat them?

Jay
 
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JPR1212

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Here’s a vid.

Clearer pics under white light would help, but I think I can see some white spots on the fish's eye. For me, that confirms ich.

Breakthrough cases of ich are pretty common - there is always some breach in biosecurity that causes this, but you can't always figure out what it is. The 80 day fallow period would be more than enough, as long as no fish were in the tank for the entire period. Two other common ways the biosecurity fails is through bringing ich into the tank on a non-fish item that came from an infected tank. The other case would be some basic failure in the treatment that you used for the fish while there were out of the tank - how did you treat them?

Jay
Pics are dark and blurry
Need clearer pics and even video using white light intensity
 
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JPR1212

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I mean I know he has ich. But idk why the fallow period didn’t work. Didn’t add anything, no fish, no coral, no new inverts… nothing. So I don’t know what happened. In at I treated with copper power for 30 days which visibly got rid of the ich then after that, I let them rest up in clean saltwater doing the tank transfer method every time. Then I did hyposalinty for like a week just to double check. Afterward no spots for the remainder of the qt.
 

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I mean I know he has ich. But idk why the fallow period didn’t work. Didn’t add anything, no fish, no coral, no new inverts… nothing. So I don’t know what happened. In at I treated with copper power for 30 days which visibly got rid of the ich then after that, I let them rest up in clean saltwater doing the tank transfer method every time. Then I did hyposalinty for like a week just to double check. Afterward no spots for the remainder of the qt.

So - the purple tang definitely has ich, but it is also breathing faster than it should. Are you seeing it scratch or flash or shake at all? I'm wondering if it might also have flukes.

Tough to say how the ich got going in your tank again. I normally use coppersafe, and I know that copper power is a bit milder/weaker, and really needs to be dosed at 2.25 to 2.5 ppm, where I think the bottles' instruction leaves you at 2.0, which is too low.

I've seen a lot of things bring ich in. One person swore that they didn't add anything new to the tank, but after a long discussion, turns out they had fed a bag of live vat raised adult brine shrimp, and the ich got into the tank that way. Not saying that happened here, just that the biosecurity issues are not always clear.
 
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So - the purple tang definitely has ich, but it is also breathing faster than it should. Are you seeing it scratch or flash or shake at all? I'm wondering if it might also have flukes.

Tough to say how the ich got going in your tank again. I normally use coppersafe, and I know that copper power is a bit milder/weaker, and really needs to be dosed at 2.25 to 2.5 ppm, where I think the bottles' instruction leaves you at 2.0, which is too low.

I've seen a lot of things bring ich in. One person swore that they didn't add anything new to the tank, but after a long discussion, turns out they had fed a bag of live vat raised adult brine shrimp, and the ich got into the tank that way. Not saying that happened here, just that the biosecurity issues are not always clear.
Both tangs are from TSM aquatics and have only ever been housed with other fish from them. TSM has a great qt process which they have personally walked me through because I’m a frequent visitor there. So I don’t believe there’s any chance flukes could be in the system. They treat with prazipro and copper with many other things mixed in a long the qt. When I did my qt I ran copper power at 2.5 because I read about the lower power of it. I haven’t seen the tangs shake or flash or anything like that to. But yea idk it’s crazy how easily stuff can get transmitted but I don’t know how it might’ve happened in my case because I only feed frozen. Nonetheless, you think he’ll be able to pull out of it just through his own immune system and heavy feeding?
 

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Both tangs are from TSM aquatics and have only ever been housed with other fish from them. TSM has a great qt process which they have personally walked me through because I’m a frequent visitor there. So I don’t believe there’s any chance flukes could be in the system. They treat with prazipro and copper with many other things mixed in a long the qt. When I did my qt I ran copper power at 2.5 because I read about the lower power of it. I haven’t seen the tangs shake or flash or anything like that to. But yea idk it’s crazy how easily stuff can get transmitted but I don’t know how it might’ve happened in my case because I only feed frozen. Nonetheless, you think he’ll be able to pull out of it just through his own immune system and heavy feeding?
I would not take that chance as ich will only multiply and take over the fish. Heavy feeding will foul tank water and make matters worse. Being that ich is present, You will want to treat them with coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.
Its not unusual for quarantined fish to become ill based on stress from netting, shipping temperature changes and absorbing a small ammonia buildup in the bag. I often tell many, when receiving quarantined fish, assume they have something and do a short quarantine for 14-21 days as anassurance/insurance
 

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I mean I know he has ich. But idk why the fallow period didn’t work. Didn’t add anything, no fish, no coral, no new inverts… nothing. So I don’t know what happened. In at I treated with copper power for 30 days which visibly got rid of the ich then after that, I let them rest up in clean saltwater doing the tank transfer method every time. Then I did hyposalinty for like a week just to double check. Afterward no spots for the remainder of the qt.
Did you treat the fish with copper? > 2 ppm?
 

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Both tangs are from TSM aquatics and have only ever been housed with other fish from them. TSM has a great qt process which they have personally walked me through because I’m a frequent visitor there. So I don’t believe there’s any chance flukes could be in the system. They treat with prazipro and copper with many other things mixed in a long the qt. When I did my qt I ran copper power at 2.5 because I read about the lower power of it. I haven’t seen the tangs shake or flash or anything like that to. But yea idk it’s crazy how easily stuff can get transmitted but I don’t know how it might’ve happened in my case because I only feed frozen. Nonetheless, you think he’ll be able to pull out of it just through his own immune system and heavy feeding?

TSM uses a very similar quarantine process as I do. I developed my process to be a good balance between effectiveness and "effort". It is almost always effective, but not 100%. To get closer to 100% effective just takes too much additional effort.

No - I don't think that "heavy feeding" will reverse this, it is too far advanced. What happens is the stress of the parasite numbers themselves start to overwhelm the fish's ability to fight them off, same as with people exposed to a disease, being healthy and in good shape helps to a point, but you still can get sick if the exposure was great enough.

Here is my discussion on "ich management":

Jay
 
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TSM uses a very similar quarantine process as I do. I developed my process to be a good balance between effectiveness and "effort". It is almost always effective, but not 100%. To get closer to 100% effective just takes too much additional effort.

No - I don't think that "heavy feeding" will reverse this, it is too far advanced. What happens is the stress of the parasite numbers themselves start to overwhelm the fish's ability to fight them off, same as with people exposed to a disease, being healthy and in good shape helps to a point, but you still can get sick if the exposure was great enough.

Here is my discussion on "ich management":

Jay
Ok thank you so much for the info! This leads me to a side question. I’ve noticed in both times my tank got ich, purple is covered with it and the yellow only has a couple dots that. For the yellow that couple dots fell off like 2 weeks ago. So really my question is are the yellows stronger when it comes to slime coat and stuff like that. Just makes me curious because I’ve see. It happen twice now.
 

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Ok thank you so much for the info! This leads me to a side question. I’ve noticed in both times my tank got ich, purple is covered with it and the yellow only has a couple dots that. For the yellow that couple dots fell off like 2 weeks ago. So really my question is are the yellows stronger when it comes to slime coat and stuff like that. Just makes me curious because I’ve see. It happen twice now.
It is an individual fish immunity issue. Theoretically, the more they get it - the better the immunity - which will fade with time. It may also be that its easier to see the lesions on purple vs yellow (based on color)
 

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Ok thank you so much for the info! This leads me to a side question. I’ve noticed in both times my tank got ich, purple is covered with it and the yellow only has a couple dots that. For the yellow that couple dots fell off like 2 weeks ago. So really my question is are the yellows stronger when it comes to slime coat and stuff like that. Just makes me curious because I’ve see. It happen twice now.

Two things are at work here: IMO, purple tangs are MUCH more susceptible to ich than yellow tangs are (but both will die from uncontrolled infections). The second thing is that due to color contrast, purple tangs show the ich trophonts much more clearly than on yellow tangs.
 
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Two things are at work here: IMO, purple tangs are MUCH more susceptible to ich than yellow tangs are (but both will die from uncontrolled infections). The second thing is that due to color contrast, purple tangs show the ich trophonts much more clearly than on yellow tangs.
@Jay Hemdal Good to know. Thanks for your help jay! I just have one last question, I saw on your thread for ich management that you recommended dosing 10% hydrogen peroxide if I remember correctly. Will this hurt coral in a reef tank and what is the benefit of doing so in regards to ich
 
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@Jay Hemdal Good to know. Thanks for your help jay! I just have one last question, I saw on your thread for ich management that you recommended dosing 10% hydrogen peroxide if I remember correctly. Will this hurt coral in a reef tank and what is the benefit of doing so in regards to ich
Correction 10mg/l
 

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@Jay Hemdal Good to know. Thanks for your help jay! I just have one last question, I saw on your thread for ich management that you recommended dosing 10% hydrogen peroxide if I remember correctly. Will this hurt coral in a reef tank and what is the benefit of doing so in regards to ich
No - I’m not a big fan of dosing peroxide without test strips to monitor the dose. That was mentioned just because so many people do it.

The active amount of peroxide in an aquarium is based on the organics level, and that changes with each peroxide dose,
 

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