Ich without treatment

ErikVR

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So here we go again. Even after being super careful and following all quarantaine protocols, I just noticed ich on my purple tang in the display tank.

I'm so done with this. I finally have corals in my tank so I can't do hypo or copper treatment. There is no chance of getting the fish out for quarantine without completely tanking out the rock work. Not going to do that.

What are the odds if I just leave everything in there and don't treat the fish? Will it be a death sentence to all?
 
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vetteguy53081

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So here we go again. Even after being super careful and following all quarantaine protocols, I just noticed ich on my purple tang in the display tank.

I'm so done with this. I finally have corals in my tank so I can't do hypo or copper treatment. There is no chance in hell of getting the fish out for quarantine without completely tanking out the rock work. Not going to do that.

What are the odds if I just leave everything in there and don't treat the fish? Will it be a death sentence to all?
Odds = risk
How long did you treat and at what copper level?
Can you post pics to verify what you have?
Even a clear tub will suffice if you don’t have a treatment tank but if indeed ich, other occupants have been exposed
 
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ErikVR

ErikVR

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Odds = risk
How long did you treat and at what copper level?
Can you post pics to verify what you have?
Even a clear tub will suffice if you don’t have a treatment tank but if indeed ich, other occupants have been exposed
36 days at 2,3 ppm. Tested with my hanna checker. I'm 100% certain it's ich. I'm far too familiar with it by now. Can't really take pictures at the moment because the lights are already out.

I have plenty of quarantine space. But demolishing the scape to get all the fish out will ruin the tank as it is now. And no matter what I do, ich seems to find its way back at some point anyway. So what's the point...

What I'm wondering now is how bad will it be if I just leave it as is. Death sentence to all fish, or lose a couple...
 

MnFish1

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There is no way to assess 'risk' - however your question is different from the usual one. which is - what's the risk of not medicating with QT. In this case your fish has a disease.. And it puts the rest of the fish in your tank at risk (assuming you're correct in your diagnosis). More information is required here to determine 'risk' - and btw - there is also a 'risk' to your other fish. All should be put in a QT 'area' - as suggested by @vetteguy53081 it can be very simple.

But - I guess the question is - what is the risk of leaving it as it is. I can't give you a percentage - but - the risk is all of your fish will get Ich and die - depending on your tank conditions and your stocking density - which I feel is important. Since there are no known copper resistant Ich strains - it may be that you did not QT long enough - or at a high enough level. Not meant as criticism. Just a comment.
 

MnFish1

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36 days at 2,3 ppm. Tested with my hanna checker. I'm 100% certain it's ich. I'm far too familiar with it by now. Can't really take pictures at the moment because the lights are already out.

I have plenty of quarantine space. But demolishing the scape to get all the fish out will ruin the tank as it is now. And no matter what I do, ich seems to find its way back at some point anyway. So what's the point...

What I'm wondering now is how bad will it be if I just leave it as is. Death sentence to all fish, or lose a couple...
Sorry you answered some of my questions while I was posting. Did you leave the tank fallow - if so - low long?
 
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ErikVR

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Sorry, my frustration is getting the better of me right now. It's so devastating that after 2 breakouts in a year, 2 hyposalinity period and following strict guidelines I'm once again in this position. It feels impossible.

Time for a night's sleep and maybe find the motivation to tear this tank down and treat all fish in the morning...
 

jda

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I don't treat any fish.... well, unless they make me... like 2 fish in 10 years that could not get past velvet while in isolation. The rest stay in isolation until they are not skittish, eating well and growing.

I have no doubt that my tank has some diseases in it. My fish are able to keep them at bay. I have coral QT, but not for fish diseases, but for coral pests. I don't keep the corals QT fishless.

There is no way to know how this will turn out, but unless people go fully fallow with all corals and inverts, then there is likely some disease in every tank. I would guess that less than 1% actually do this, so the vast majority of tanks most likely have some disease in them and it is not a death sentence.

Death sentences are more like new tanks with sterile rock and sand where diseases can breed like a petri dish in the environment with no predators. Also, tanks with no hiding places where the fish can fully get out of sight and feel safe.
 

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In another post I mentioned hobby longevity doesn’t equate. to credibility…. but not in this case ;
I can say over half my losses in fish was from ich or velvet and that could be in the hundreds ….
….there are “ in tank” methods but the success odds are lower and mentioning them. here on R2R is partial taboo…
my sample opinion is take the fish out, medicate/treat em properly
 

jda

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Also, fish get immunity to ich and velvet - diseases with off-fish life cycle. If they can fight it off, they can start a cycle of being immune to not being affected.

I am not going to treat some wrasses and butterflies with copper and I will not doing 78 day fallow for inverts or corals, so it makes no sense to treat my fish unless they need it. If this is where your tank is at, then QT just to get them eating, acclimated and ready to fight is about all that you can do. I do this in what I call introduction tanks since I do not want to confuse the term QT since I don't medicate.

My systems are very mature and have a wide variety of microfauna that would love to make a meal out of an ich tomont when they drop into the surface somewhere. In the olden days, people used to say to wait 6-12 months to get a hard fish mostly for this reason - tanks were started with live rock which just needed time to spread the microfauna so that disease tomonts had to fight for their lives. A pack of real live rock could do as much as anything for a new tank to help fight diseases.
 

threebuoys

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Catching fish to remove from DT is very challenging but can be accomplished. I prefer to use fish traps instead of nets. Large traps can be fabricated from clear plastic bottles and baited with food. You may find some examples if you search R2R.
 

jda

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If you have plans to always do a 78 day fallow on any inverts and corals, then catch the fish and start over. If you don't then just work on a diverse ecosystem, giving the best food and environment to the fish and they can probably fight diseases off on their own.
 

jda

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Sorry for so many posts, but you need to plan on 78 day fallow period for all inverts. You do not want to increase the temp to speed things up for most snails, corals, etc. It can damage them and shorten their lives... especially snails, urchins and many stony corals.
 

Jay Hemdal

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So here we go again. Even after being super careful and following all quarantaine protocols, I just noticed ich on my purple tang in the display tank.

I'm so done with this. I finally have corals in my tank so I can't do hypo or copper treatment. There is no chance in hell of getting the fish out for quarantine without completely tanking out the rock work. Not going to do that.

What are the odds if I just leave everything in there and don't treat the fish? Will it be a death sentence to all?

Sorry to hear!

White spots are not always ich, especially with tangs. However, assuming your diagnosis is correct and you caught it really early, ich management is an option. I recently posted my thoughts on that here:


Jay
 

jda

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I wrote my thoughts up here:

 

EliMelly

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I was in a similar situation. I had an ich outbreak in my tank and have pipes under the sand for an eel which two firefish live in. Due to this there was no way I could remove all the fish.

I decided to do the Paul B method and it worked. I have no ich (hippo tang included) and it’s been several months at least.

I did the following:

UV Sterilizer, make sure you have less strength on your pump so the water stays in the UV for longer.

Feed live black worms! Extremely important.

Feed a well balanced diet and overfeed.

I also used polyp lab medic, not sure how much it actually helped though.

Let me know if you have any questions, but again I’m very new to the hobby and I would follow advice from Vette Guy and Jay Hemdal.
 

vetteguy53081

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36 days at 2,3 ppm. Tested with my hanna checker. I'm 100% certain it's ich. I'm far too familiar with it by now. Can't really take pictures at the moment because the lights are already out.

I have plenty of quarantine space. But demolishing the scape to get all the fish out will ruin the tank as it is now. And no matter what I do, ich seems to find its way back at some point anyway. So what's the point...

What I'm wondering now is how bad will it be if I just leave it as is. Death sentence to all fish, or lose a couple...
Potential death se4ntence but only time will tell. Potential is the parasite will thrive and reproduce as long as there is a host fish. Take away the food source (the fish) and you take away the parasite. I understand the feeling on why medicate but I dont see whether you ran 2.3 or 2.5 that were be any significant outcome. The question is the display - Did you leave it fishless for 6-8 FULL weeks or 39 days until treatment period was met of 30 days?
 

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Sorry, my frustration is getting the better of me right now. It's so devastating that after 2 breakouts in a year, 2 hyposalinity period and following strict guidelines I'm once again in this position. It feels impossible.

Time for a night's sleep and maybe find the motivation to tear this tank down and treat all fish in the morning...
I'm one of those that believes ich is in every tank albeit in a dormant state unless fish are overly stressed. The stress lowers their immune system thus allowing ich to gain hold. Read up on @Paul B tank and how he actually introduced ich sick fish into his established system to boost immunity in the tank.
 

ISpeakForTheSeas

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And no matter what I do, ich seems to find its way back at some point anyway. So what's the point...
Even after being super careful and following all quarantaine protocols, I just noticed ich on my purple tang in the display tank.
I'm sorry for your struggles here!

Out of curiosity, have you added anything at all that wasn't quarantined first? I ask because while the odds of them bringing disease in are low, inverts (snails, hermits, anemones, etc.), macroalgae, corals, even phytoplankton and pod cultures, etc. all can bring in disease (thankfully it's pretty rare, but I've seen a few confirmed cases where it has happened).
 

KrisReef

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All that can be offered has been said. Might just need a UV to get the pest in check, feed well, good fresh foods and only God can provide the probablilities and lengths of life that we all have.

Sorry for your situation, you can beat this.
 

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