ID: Brown String Algae on Sand & Rocks

[rockskimmerflow]

Its not rich. It's fact. You still have yet to share one ounce of why you claim those pictures are dino's. My case wasn't rare. Many others experience the same and are automatically told "dino's because of the "air bubble". Its irresponsible to tell someone that without first knowing for sure one way or another. One is an easy fix. One is not. I keep your reading your posts and essentially are you patronizing me. That fine. Thats your right. I anxiously await to hear what makes you an expert on dino. I haven't read anything that states it's your expertise.

Oh I don't claim to be a 'dino expert' I just find your response of 'most of those aren't dino' to a search result of photos that clearly show all the indications of largely accepted dino symptoms to be laughably dismissive. Of course there is no way to confirm one way or another if those photos were truly dino, but you stated that most weren't pictures of dino as if you somehow have that knowledge for a fact. Which, if it were true, would indeed make you the world's foremost expert of photo based dino ID. In any case, I think the proper response to most of these 'brown bubbly stringy slime algae' outbreaks is a balanced nutrient maintenance approach to combat a starving system as suggested by @Diesel above. Competition from higher level organisms that thrive with detectable nitrate and phosphate seem to eliminate the presence of these blooms once nutrients are consistently maintained at appropriate levels. I wish the OP's tank a swift recovery whatever its ailment turns out to be.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Oh I don't claim to be a 'dino expert' I just find your response of 'most of those aren't dino' to a search result of photos that clearly show all the indications of largely accepted dino symptoms to be laughably dismissive. Of course there is no way to confirm one way or another if those photos were truly dino, but you stated that most weren't pictures of dino as if you somehow have that knowledge for a fact. Which, if it were true, would indeed make you the world's foremost expert of photo based dino ID. In any case, I think the proper response to most of these 'brown bubbly stringy slime algae' outbreaks is a balanced nutrient maintenance approach to combat a starving system as suggested by @Diesel above. Competition from higher level organisms that thrive with detectable nitrate and phosphate seem to eliminate the presence of these blooms once nutrients are consistently maintained at appropriate levels. I wish the OP's tank a swift recovery whatever its ailment turns out to be.

So you are telling me I can't tell from photos, but you are pointing out that the photo's "clearly show all the indications of largely accepted dino symptoms". Based on that, that should make you an expert. So I ask again, what makes you an expert?

 

[rockskimmerflow]

So you are telling me I can't tell from photos, but you are pointing out that the photo's "clearly show all the indications of largely accepted dino symptoms". Based on that, that should make you an expert. So I ask again, what makes you an expert?

So you don't think that networks of brown, stringy, bubbly, slime type substances over rock and sand are largely accepted potential symptoms of dinoflagellates?? Sure they can be caused by other things, but you summarily dismissed those photos (which were found under a search for dino pics) as 'most of those are not pics of dino'- as if you knew that for a fact. Obviously, there's no way either of us can prove those photos are or aren't dino. Personally, I'm inclined to think they are and you may not be and that's fine, but at the end of the day telling someone that most of the pictures that are out there on the internet labeled as examples of dino aren't actually representative of dino seems to be massively assumptive and counterproductive at best. Wish you all the best my friend. I hope you are not put off by this exchange as I enjoy trying to see someone else's perspective while hoping to convey my own. Will definitely be doing more research into brown, bubbly cyano-type algaes and their characteristics as a result of your experience with something of that sort. Always new things to learn.

 

[BigHildy53]

Since posting, the amount on the sand as decreased.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0 (.001 actually)
Nitrate: 2.1
Phosphate: .2 (Hanna LR), .26 (Hach DR890)
Calcium: 392
Magnesium: 1400
Silica: .35
Ph is between 7.65 and 7.85 in last 24 hours.
Alkalinity: 8.6

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Since posting, the amount on the sand as decreased.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0 (.001 actually)
Nitrate: 2.1
Phosphate: .2 (Hanna LR), .26 (Hach DR890)
Calcium: 392
Magnesium: 1400
Silica: .35
Ph is between 7.65 and 7.85 in last 24 hours.
Alkalinity: 8.6

Wow looks significantly improved already. Parameters looking like they've improved as well. Hopefully if you keep on the same track you'll have it all cleaned up within a week or two.

 

[burtbollinger]

i've battled this and it was almost certainly NOT dinos. It was a stringy, brown hair like mixture that seemed a bit like brown cyano...

I've battled dinos before and this certainly was not that. (I've been doing this hobby for 20 years) It resembled more like long-diatoms...was occuring @ 6-9 month mark in a clean tank with rock solid parameters. (nitrates at 3, phosphates undetectable on cheap Hanna)

It was very frustrating to hear many well-meaning people at the time claim that it was dinos when it wasn't, btw. Frankly, this is one area where there is not enough written..."BROWN type algae...what the heck is it?" Battling it and trying to use the usual for forums for help was frustrating and strangely lonely.

I think mine thrived because #1...I never thought to build a proper clean up crew. I foolishly followed what I consider to be bad advice that I did not, in fact, need one if I was doing everything right.

Just a hunch, but I likely had silicates too (dry rock and sand)....AND I was overdosing aminos and reef chili....but what was originally diatoms sorta morphed into a different brown mess, tinged with small amounts of cyano. My best guess at a diagnosis was calothrix.

whatever it was...and again, it was not dinos...i beat back with a combo approach:

• Ceasing amino dosing. (I should have used 1/4 the recommended dose)
• Stopped overly agitating sand bed...gentle stirring instead
• Manual removal....swapping and replacing removed top layer of sand. Brandon429 would certainly recommend getting even more aggressive i think
• Wet skimming, cleaning skimmer neck regularly
• Regular filter sock replacement every 3-4 days
• A large but appropriate number of Cerith snails for sandbed (this was huge), astria snails for rocks
• Moderate amount of GFO in a reactor
• Purigen run passive.
• Weekly 20%water changes
• Lowering white intensity of lights.

Something in this combo worked. Dramatic turnaround in 20-30 days. My gut also says the tank was new, and had not quite matured.

 

[bgoldb]

I had a very similar type of stringy brown cyano (guessing) that only appeared on the gravel bed. Believing that it was bacterial in nature, I added a UV sterilizer. The cyano/algae was gone in less than a week and has not returned.

 

[BigHildy53]

I had a very similar type of stringy brown cyano (guessing) that only appeared on the gravel bed. Believing that it was bacterial in nature, I added a UV sterilizer. The cyano/algae was gone in less than a week and has not returned.

Thanks. I've started a chemiclean treatment. I may put the UV sterilizer on. I have been debating. What flow do you have through it?

 

[rkpetersen]

• Ceasing amino dosing. (I should have used 1/4 the recommended dose)
• Stopped overly agitating sand bed...gentle stirring instead
• Manual removal....swapping and replacing removed top layer of sand. Brandon429 would certainly recommend getting even more aggressive i think
• Wet skimming, cleaning skimmer neck regularly
• Regular filter sock replacement every 3-4 days
• A large but appropriate number of Cerith snails for sandbed (this was huge), astria snails for rocks
• Moderate amount of GFO in a reactor
• Purigen run passive.
• Weekly 20%water changes
• Lowering white intensity of lights.

I've recently had a smallish (sand only) outbreak of a fast-growing reddish-brown algae-like material that grows in stringy filaments and mats. My tank is young, less than six months. Nitrate .75, Phosphate .03 or less. Organics quite low as well - Used water is ice blue in a white bucket, biological oxygen demand (BOD) based on Lamotte's dissolved oxygen test is 0.2-0.4 ppm. I should not have algae problems, and I haven't (herbivores have starved in my tank), except for this stuff. My first thought, of course, was cyanobacteria of some sort. Maybe diatoms, although I know my silicon levels are also low, and no Si in my RODI water. Then I looked at Sprung's Algae book, and grew concerned when certain features that he described and that fit my particular situation suggested dinoflagellates.

Then I read a discussion, maybe from this forum, I'm not sure, that tried to convince me that this stuff is spirulina, based on a test with hydrogen peroxide. It didn't turn out to be accurate information.

So, I purchased a decent microscope. What I saw was almost entirely red cyanobacteria typical of oscillatoria or similar species (calothrix is one, also hydrocoleum and a couple more). It did not have the appearance of spirulina/arthrospira or similar. I also saw occasional diatoms, and maybe a few dinoflagellates, although I'm not sure they weren't something else.

So despite pristine water, I have cyano in my sand. Probably because the bioload is high? I don't know. But I'm already in the process of doing all of the things you mention, and it's very reassuring that my checklist is the same as that of a more experienced aquarist. Got a bunch of cerith snails arriving on Thursday.

 

[alex.mccann99]

Definitely Dynos. Forgot water changes, Blackout lighting, and the usual treatment for algae. Dynos are a totally different issue. Best way to take care is Dosing Hydrogen Peroxide, pull your rocks out and scrub them in a Hydrogen Peroxide with clean water bath. You can scrub with a toothbrush. Siphon your sand bed. Any corals will not be effected, fish will be fine too. This is the cheapest and easiest way, and it totally works. You can then continue to dose Hydrogen Peroxide for a few days until you see its not coming back.

 

[bgoldb]

Thanks. I've started a chemiclean treatment. I may put the UV sterilizer on. I have been debating. What flow do you have through it?

The flow isn’t steady as it is running off of a manifold from my return pump that changes flow speed from day to night. I would say the flow ranges from 50-150 gph but I recommend that you follow the manufacturer flow recommendations.

 

[rkpetersen]

Thanks. I've started a chemiclean treatment. I may put the UV sterilizer on. I have been debating. What flow do you have through it?

Is this stuff, ChemiClean, safe for a reef tank? With crustaceans, molluscs and echinoderms present?

 

[BigHildy53]

Is this stuff, ChemiClean, safe for a reef tank? With crustaceans, molluscs and echinoderms present?

Says that it is. I have used it before without adverse effects.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Is this stuff, ChemiClean, safe for a reef tank? With crustaceans, molluscs and echinoderms present?

I use at 1.5 times recommended dose with a wood air stone in front of wave pump to keep up oxygen levels. Wait a couple days to see if I need to dose again. I don't do water changes but do skim wet after and run fresh Rox carbon. I have done it multiple times and never has a problem with live stock.

 

[Retfitter]

Believe it or not but I think you deal with tank starvation.
Give me some test results and also your potassium level, I bet that will be low.
It can be simple correction though.
Will tag my good friend @PSXerholic (Andre) in here who basically has a write up about this.

 

[Retfitter]

I'm somewhat new to this hobby but decided to share what worked for me. I had this same stuff for about 2 months. Tried lights out for 3-4 days. This would clear it up, but it would come back as soon as the lights were back on. Cut my light cycle to 6 hrs. Cut intensity to barely enough to sustain life. This seemed to slow it down just a bit. Water changes every 3 or 4 days would clean it up, but, as you said, it would come right back. Tried brewers yeast in very small doses, no effect. It was driving me crazy. I finally put in about 15 hermit crabs (75 g. Tank) and it cleared up. I know this sounds over simplistic. It did to me also when it was suggested but it worked. After a while I was able to slowly ramp up the lighting intensity and cut back on the water changes and it hasn't returned. I'm following this thread to learn what it is. Like I stated earlier, I've only been at this about 15 months now and enjoy learning as much as I can on this forum. Looking forward to hearing what this stuff is.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Believe it or not but I think you deal with tank starvation.
It can be simple correction though.
Will tag my good friend @PSXerholic (Andre) in here who basically has a write up about this.

I agree when you starve a tank everything bad happens. Because of improvements in equipment, food quality the time has come where you can have to clean a tank or the balance is off. If nothing else you learn that what may have cause the problem this time may not be the same the next time.

 

[Diesel]

I agree when you starve a tank everything bad happens. Because of improvements in equipment, food quality the time has come where you can have to clean a tank or the balance is off. If nothing else you learn that what may have cause the problem this time may not be the same the next time.

It's not in the wetskim, chemopure, lights out, waterchanges, and what not more.
I always believed having algae is a healthy thing to have, but many times ppl swear to be completely algae free is better.
Not cleaning your glass for three days is the best there is and the skim off is as dark as the night, yes I can do that too and some methods are designed for that........... ZEO, Triton, Aqua Forrest etc etc.
I do clean my glass, like twice a day cause if not my snails can write their name in it
If I tell you that I try to keep my Po4 higher as 0.15 but below 0.2 and No3 between 10 and 15 ppm but don't freak out if I test 20 or higher.
No I don't run Macro's, Bio-Pellets, Carbon, GFO or any other snake in a bottle.
Just simply 8 hrs a day on the Lifereef skimmer, Micronano's for 4 hrs at night, not filter socks, and I feed my Diesel brew.
Alk is 7.5, Cal 390, Mag 1250 (give and take) Ph in the morning 7.95 and late afternoon 8.15, K at 410.
I dose 2 cups of Hydro Peroxide in my 35g ATO but not sure how long it's last in there as Hydro Peroxide is a oxygenizer and lose it's strength over time, and to be honest not sure why I use it other than it helps against Cyano which I never had in my tanks or at least I never seen it in the 35+ years.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

It's not in the wetskim, chemopure, lights out, waterchanges, and what not more.
I always believed having algae is a healthy thing to have, but many times ppl swear to be completely algae free is better.
Not cleaning your glass for three days is the best there is and the skim off is as dark as the night, yes I can do that too and some methods are designed for that........... ZEO, Triton, Aqua Forrest etc etc.
I do clean my glass, like twice a day cause if not my snails can write their name in it
If I tell you that I try to keep my Po4 higher as 0.15 but below 0.2 and No3 between 10 and 15 ppm but don't freak out if I test 20 or higher.
No I don't run Macro's, Bio-Pellets, Carbon, GFO or any other snake in a bottle.
Just simply 8 hrs a day on the Lifereef skimmer, Micronano's for 4 hrs at night, not filter socks, and I feed my Diesel brew.
Alk is 7.5, Cal 390, Mag 1250 (give and take) Ph in the morning 7.95 and late afternoon 8.15, K at 410.
I dose 2 cups of Hydro Peroxide in my 35g ATO but not sure how long it's last in there as Hydro Peroxide is a oxygenizer and lose it's strength over time, and to be honest not sure why I use it other than it helps against Cyano which I never had in my tanks or at least I never seen it in the 35+ years.

I can say I don't have algae in my display as my tangs take care of it. It takes a good 5-7 days to get a film on glass where I feel the need to remove it.
My main reason now for running my skimmer is to bring in air from outside as our house is kept shut tight most of the year. I tried many of the fad things GFO, bio pellets ect but now that I can not afford to just try anything I have gone back to keep it simple, low cost, low maintenance. I have always heard and felt a little algae is a good thing as long as it is not overgrowing the tank. About the only place I was getting any was in overflows. I really don't even test much unless something seems off. Alkalinity and SG is what I test for most of the time but not more often than monthly.

 

[Tony Thompson]

IMO. You really do need to have a look through a scope to get an accurate ID, before you can prescribe treatment. IME, Dino species are varied but are completely different in appearance under a scope to both Diatom and Cyano Species. Effective chemical treatment for each are different. You don`t need to have kept aquariums for 40 years to ID Bacteria just by viewing the visual effects of any outbreak. You just need to use a more scientific approach. My advise is to buy a cheap second hand scope. A dissecting scope should be powerful enough. Once you have a positive diagnosis you can then work on treatment and future prevention. I have a scope myself and besides being invaluable to myself has also come in very handy for helping out other local reefers. There are a number of certified products on the market. I have found Dino-X from Fauna Marine very efficient at treating Dino and Chemiclean from Boyd Enterprises effective for Cyano. Diatoms usually burn themselves out after a period of time. I have tested these products with Fish, Moluscs, LPS, SPS and Crustaceans. I have not observed any obvious detrimental effects from either product. Remove as much of the outbreak as possible with a siphon before treatment. This is to reduce the effects of oxygen depletion and nutrient release. Lower your lighting schedule to max 10 hours blue and 5 hours full spectrum a day. With photosynthetic organisms it is advisable to dose treatment after lights out. Make sure sufficient oxygen in the water column. Good skimming 24hrs a day should suffice. Please follow the instructions accurate, make an accurate calculation of water volume. After treatment look at positive ways to reduce the likelihood of re occurrence. This usually involves finding the likely cause of the outbreak and taking appropriate steps. Hope this makes sense BigHildy 53, Good luck and happy reefing. Tony Thompson, Sustainable Marine - Reefers UK.