Ideal turnover rate?

[19Mateo83]

What is everyone’s thoughts on return pump turnover rate? I have heard everything from 6-50x. In past builds I have shot for 15-20x but they have always been bigger tanks with a sump below. I am building out a AIO tank from scratch out of a 14gal cube rimless. After building out the filter I will be looking at roughly a 11 gallon display area. I have the option of a 150 gph and a 250gph return pump. Would the 250 gph (22x) be too much in such a small tank? Should I shoot for the 150 gph (13x)?

 

[Spare time]

Honestly I don't think there is any reason why one number is particularly better than another other than to increase the suction power for mechanical filtration. I just go with what gives me the best "suction" into the overflow, water movement in the sump (I like the drain to be splashing a bit more for aeration), and reasonable time in the return pump chamber to where it won't run dry rapidly between topping it off.

 

[sc50964]

There was another thread recently on this. If I recall correctly, some ppl said 5x is the new standard versus some others including myself said 10x or more. I think you won’t go wrong by aiming for 10x but get a DC return pump so you can adjust down if it’s too much.

 

[mnl119]

What is everyone’s thoughts on return pump turnover rate? I have heard everything from 6-50x. In past builds I have shot for 15-20x but they have always been bigger tanks with a sump below. I am building out a AIO tank from scratch out of a 14gal cube rimless. After building out the filter I will be looking at roughly a 11 gallon display area. I have the option of a 150 gph and a 250gph return pump. Would the 250 gph (22x) be too much in such a small tank? Should I shoot for the 150 gph (13x)?

15 to 20 times the turnover per hour? Sounds really high. 20x for a 200 gallon tank is 40,000 gph of flow.

 

[slythy]

It depends. Overall flow should be high but through filtration probably not.

on my 75 gallon i run 400gph through my sump, then have 2 mp10s (40%) in gyre mode and 2 mp40’s (35%) in reef crest mode.

Im sure im at like 6000gph total flow but only 400 through my sump.

 

[mnl119]

It depends. Overall flow should be high but through filtration probably not.

on my 75 gallon i run 400gph through my sump, then have 2 mp10s (40%) in gyre mode and 2 mp40’s (35%) in reef crest mode.

Im sure im at like 6000gph total flow but only 400 through my sump.

I don't think recirculation counts as turnover.

 

[Pistondog]

15 to 20 times the turnover per hour? Sounds really high. 20x for a 200 gallon tank is 40,000 gph of flow.

4000 gph

 

[sc50964]

I don't think recirculation counts as turnover.

No it doesn’t.

 

[minus9]

Turnover isn't the same as flow, so we need to make that distinction clear. It is completely pointless to go beyond 1-3x turnover from the sump to the display. Higher turnover reduces contact time with your skimmer, reduces the chances of detritus settling in a place that's easily removed and biological filtration doesn't benefit from higher turnover rates either. Same with mechanical/chemical, etc.... Higher turnover is a complete mind story/back of the napkin idea that people latched onto without any real evidence. Maybe someone said to increase it to keep the cheato ball rolling for a certain "method"? Regardless, it's completely pointless.

 

[sc50964]

Turnover isn't the same as flow, so we need to make that distinction clear. It is completely pointless to go beyond 1-3x turnover from the sump to the display. Higher turnover reduces contact time with your skimmer, reduces the chances of detritus settling in a place that's easily removed and biological filtration doesn't benefit from higher turnover rates either. Same with mechanical/chemical, etc.... Higher turnover is a complete mind story/back of the napkin idea that people latched onto without any real evidence. Maybe someone said to increase it to keep the cheato ball rolling for a certain "method"? Regardless, it's completely pointless.

Not unless ppl still use a wet dry old school filter system in the sump.

 

[19Mateo83]

15 to 20 times the turnover per hour? Sounds really high. 20x for a 200 gallon tank is 40,000 gph of flow.

In the 75 I had years ago I had 1,200gph flowing through my sump. I only had to do minor supplemental flow with power heads, the returns took care of the majority of the flow. I was just under the 20x rate of 1500gph. It is easier to go higher flow in smaller tanks. I also know the mentality about flow rate has changed a lot in my 12 year absence from the hobby, along with a lot of other things.

 

[19Mateo83]

BTW I opted for the 150 gph for my AIO 14 cube build.

 

[Krad]

I'm building out a new tank and was wondering how people actually measure your gph since plumbing and head pressure can lower the pump's rating.

Which leads me to a silly thought I had, has anyone used a water meter to see how many gallons went through it in a hour like this?:

Just slap some barbed hitting on there and put it inline? Concern is metal contamination but I'm pretty sure I found one thats plastic only and it would be a one time thing.
I know apex makes one but I don't really want to drop all that cash and the reviews didn't seem great.

 

[Pistondog]

Give it a try and let us know.
Some of us have apex flowmeter or other, but i like your solution if safe.

 

[19Mateo83]

I'm building out a new tank and was wondering how people actually measure your gph since plumbing and head pressure can lower the pump's rating.

Which leads me to a silly thought I had, has anyone used a water meter to see how many gallons went through it in a hour like this?:

Just slap some barbed hitting on there and put it inline? Concern is metal contamination but I'm pretty sure I found one thats plastic only and it would be a one time thing.
I know apex makes one but I don't really want to drop all that cash and the reviews didn't seem great.

Your pump manufacturer should have info on flow rates at different head heights. I never needed to be that precise about gph. You could always time how long it takes to fill a gallon jug then extrapolate to get a rough estimate.

 

[Spare time]

This is sorta silly to me up because why these arbitrary values are recommended as some standard or best value is probably just made up. I doubt it matters so long as crud is making its way into the mechanical filtration. I doubt anyone has any strong evidence that different turnover rates do anything outside of very specific scenarios. As long as its not too much that your pump runs dry quickly or too slow that crud barely gets pulled in, its fine. How form these superstitions of x amount of turnover is needed or recommended is funny to me.

 

[19Mateo83]

This cracks me up because it really doesn't matter so long as crud is making its way into the mechanical filtration. I doubt anyone has any strong evidence that different turnover rates do anything outside of very specific scenarios. As long as its not too much that your pump runs dry quickly or too slow that crud barely gets pulled in, its fine. How form these superstitions of x amount of turnover is needed or recommended is funny to me.

The last time I had a reef tank led lights and hydro koralias and ecotech wave makers had just hit the market and Tonga rock was still the standard for live rock. Maybe I still have a bit of the old school mentality.

 

[mnl119]

4000 gph

Oops. Should have had my coffee first.

 

[mike550]

I'm building out a new tank and was wondering how people actually measure your gph since plumbing and head pressure can lower the pump's rating.

Which leads me to a silly thought I had, has anyone used a water meter to see how many gallons went through it in a hour like this?:

Just slap some barbed hitting on there and put it inline? Concern is metal contamination but I'm pretty sure I found one thats plastic only and it would be a one time thing.
I know apex makes one but I don't really want to drop all that cash and the reviews didn't seem great.

Cool idea. Way cheaper than a flow meter, and probably more accurate.

 

[Krad]

I think I’m going to try my method for science and get back to you guys. I’ll do it when I’m leak testing the new tank so water contamination won’t matter no live stock and all the water will be removed.

fishing season has to hurry up before I go stir crazy and come up with other tests