If it's not covered in coralline, is algae (any kind) guaranteed to cover the surface?

[Gedxin]

Going on 7 months since setting up my tank with dead rock. I have a lot of GHA and sand (turf? green hair?) algae. I've got a significant CUC (~10 hermits, ~15 cerith/astrea/nerite snails, 5x nassarius, 5x bumblebee.) I run a skimmer 21hours a day. Replace filter floss every other day. Nitrates are around ~6 and phosphates are 0, constantly, even after dosing NeoPhos nightly for 2 weeks straight. Tank is ~25g net water. I have 4 fish and that's probably my max, so algae-eating fish additions aren't an option.

Fair amount of coralline covering my rocks, and a smidge on the back wall.

The problem: Anything not covered in coralline is covered in GHA. I scrape/brush it off, I siphon it out, I turkey baste it...comes back in a few days.

My question, other than the obvious title question: what's the end game for a nano tank? How do people manage >0 NO3 >0 PO4 while not having their rocks littered with algae?

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

U need to find balance is all.
Your tank is good at making nutrients. U need to export or get that absorbed by things that can utilize it.

By doing this and removing the hair algae manually by hand and a toothbrush u will get where u want.
D

 

[Muffin87]

Phosphates may be zero, but they are being taken up by the algae as well.

You need to manually remove the algae, and use mechanical filtration to make sure that what little you couldnt remove manually isn't gonna decompose and fuel further algae growth.

You can also consider using vibrant and brightwell clean to help eradicate algae completely.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Seahares. Urchins. And top crown snails and Mexican turbo snails will all graze on hair algae.
D

 

[Gedxin]

U need to find balance is all.
Your tank is good at making nutrients. U need to export or get that absorbed by things that can utilize it.

By doing this and removing the hair algae manually by hand and a toothbrush u will get where u want.
D

So you're saying the goal is to reduce NO3 even more? That's a hard balance to reduce enough for my coral to live while not having enough for algae to grow.

Phosphates may be zero, but they are being taken up by the algae as well.

You need to manually remove the algae, and use mechanical filtration to make sure that what little you couldnt remove manually isn't gonna decompose and fuel further algae growth.

You can also consider using vibrant and brightwell clean to help eradicate algae completely.

I've been on the manual algae removal crusade for 2 months. It just keeps coming back. Is the goal to reduce nutrients enough that at some point when I remove it...it won't have enough to grow?

 

[Gedxin]

Seahares. Urchins. And top crown snails and Mexican turbo snails will all graze on hair algae.
D

Sea hares seem like such a risky option, terrified of one dying on me and crashing the tank.

I've had really bad luck with turbo snails. Recently introduced 4 in my tank and they all died within 2 weeks.

 

[Muffin87]

I've been on the manual algae removal crusade for 2 months. It just keeps coming back. Is the goal to reduce nutrients enough that at some point when I remove it...it won't have enough to grow?

Lower the intensity of your lights, make them only use the blue spectrum (except when you are removing the algae manually).
If you are running a nano, after algae removal, try a 100% water change, to remove all the spores. (unless you have acropora/montipora. They may hate the sudden change).
Else, try running a 5 or 10 micron filter sock to filter out spores.

Brightwell clean is bacteria that reduces phosphates and literally eats the algae.
Brightwell razor marine prevents the algae from attaching to the rocks.
Vibrant is a tried and true solution to kill algae, but can also bother corals and fish, some say.

I suggest Brightwell clean.

Often nutrient control isnt enough if you have A LOT of algae that has taken over a substantial amount of your rocks.

I dont wanna say some idiocy now, but I vaguely remember reading something about algal exudates promoting further algae growth.

 

[k2-]

So I am learning a very hard lesson - 0 ph and 0 nitrate is not a good thing - I have a 40g refugium supporting 150 + 50 display and sump. Lights were on on refugium all the time . My Trachy (see the post Trachy is slowly dying). Was dying and I figured if it does this way everything might perish. I have stopped the skimmer , turned the refuge light to 4 hours from 24. A phosphate spike but nitrates are still at 3.7 finally I dosed neo nitrate today. It might be that jnititially all the nitrate is being consumed by my corals but eventually in the long run I will have to make sure nitrate levels are sufficient. Just like you I have a huge cleaner crew and a lot of fish but nitrates won’t go up. Following and curious

 

[Gedxin]

Lower the intensity of your lights, make them only use the blue spectrum (except when you are removing the algae manually).
If you are running a nano, after algae removal, try a 100% water change, to remove all the spores. (unless you have acropora/montipora. They may hate the sudden change).
Else, try running a 5 or 10 micron filter sock to filter out spores.

Brightwell clean is bacteria that reduces phosphates and literally eats the algae.
Brightwell razor marine prevents the algae from attaching to the rocks.
Vibrant is a tried and true solution to kill algae, but can also bother corals and fish, some say.

I suggest Brightwell clean.

Often nutrient control isnt enough if you have A LOT of algae that has taken over a substantial amount of your rocks.

I have a mixed reef, acros, SPS, LPS, softies. Suuuuper reluctant to try any chemicals. That said, my lights are on 10 hours a day with ~5hrs 20% whites and ~5hrs 0% whites, the rest are blues. I want my acros to grow so I've got the lights on at ~250par top of rocks, about the lowest I'd like to go for their success. I could reduce my lighting period even further, I just am doubtful 9 or 8 hour photoperiod will make much difference.

So I am learning a very hard lesson - 0 ph and 0 nitrate is not a good thing - I have a 40g refugium supporting 150 + 50 display and sump. Lights were on on refugium all the time . My Trachy (see the post Trachy is slowly dying). Was dying and I figured if it does this way everything might perish. I have stopped the skimmer , turned the refuge light to 4 hours from 24. A phosphate spike but nitrates are still at 3.7 finally I dosed neo nitrate today. It might be that jnititially all the nitrate is being consumed by my corals but eventually in the long run I will have to make sure nitrate levels are sufficient. Just like you I have a huge cleaner crew and a lot of fish but nitrates won’t go up. Following and curious

Sorry for your struggles! I do not have a refugium due to no room for it. It's a difficult balance to maintain just enough nutrients to not bottom out and not having too many to grow literally all the nuisance algae in the world.

 

[Muffin87]

Suuuuper reluctant to try any chemicals.

Let me get this straight.

1. You have a 7 month old tank set up with dry rock. Dry rock is a recipe for algae in the first year.
2. You have corals that need high PAR.
3. Algae has taken over wherever coralline couldn't because of the dry rock set up, the age of the tank, and the high intensity of the light.
4. You wanna solve this exclusively with nutrient reduction and manual removal.
5. You won't consider bacterial additives.

Good luck pal. Not sure what kind of suggestion you want if you've already decided how to solve your problem, even tho you say that's not working out.
Bacterial additives against algae contain bacteria that don't reproduce in salt walter.
Let me know how your strategy shapes up!

 

[Gedxin]

Let me get this straight.

1. You have a 7 month old tank set up with dry rock. Dry rock is a recipe for algae in the first year.
2. You have corals that need high PAR.
3. Algae has taken over wherever coralline couldn't because of the dry rock set up, the age of the tank, and the high intensity of the light.
4. You wanna solve this exclusively with nutrient reduction and manual removal.
5. You won't consider bacterial additives.

Good luck pal. Not sure what kind of suggestion you want if you've already decided how to solve your problem.

Right, so you're basically saying I've put myself in to a corner and there's really no way out of it with my self-imposed restrictions. I could reduce lights more, but that would likely stunt coral growth too. I could dose chemicals, but that has high potential to harm/kill coral.

1. You wanna solve this exclusively with nutrient reduction and manual removal.

I certainly don't ONLY want to use this method. Eager for other solutions that don't include more light reduction or chemical changes.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

I recently with through this and I ended up turning my rock over to shade the exposed hair algae side.
I'm not a fan of vibrant or chemicals either. I had to remove a triggerfish to allow my snails to do their jobs. Also I added tang fish that are herbivore.
... I'm still gonna say top crowns. Turbos. Urchins. Seahare. Lol.
Idk what else to say other than slow down feedings and increase water changes with manual removal. Lots of work. Im waiting mine out. Lol.
D

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

I also don't like blue tanks. Im sorry everyone.
D

 

[mdb_talon]

I also don't like blue tanks. Im sorry everyone.
D

 

[mdb_talon]

In my experience the answer is both time and accepting some algae. If you want an "instagram tank" with no algae that all then you have to walk a very fine line of starving everything and/or using chemical means. If you can accept some algae then a large cleanup crew, occasional manual removal, and some time i think will get you where you want to be. Seven months is quite awhile, but the tank will mature further. I have had tanks that made me want to pull out my own hair along with the GHA, but just sticking with it usually it seems to correct itself if you keep your nutrients reasonable(yours are) and you make sure it does not get out of control(through cuc and manual removal).

 

[Muffin87]

Right, so you're basically saying I've put myself in to a corner and there's really no way out of it with my self-imposed restrictions. I could reduce lights more, but that would likely stunt coral growth too. I could dose chemicals, but that has high potential to harm/kill coral.


I certainly don't ONLY want to use this method. Eager for other solutions that don't include more light reduction or chemical changes.

The only other potential solution is buying a huge clean up crew. Except they are all gonna starve to death once they've solved your algae problem. As they die they are gonna spike the nutrients causing another algae problem. Unless you can relocate them

• Nutrient control
• Manual removal and mechanical Filtration
• Bacterial additives (these aren't known to be harmful. But they may reduce nutrients too much. The bacteria can consume the algae tho.)
• The dreadful chemicals (not bacteria)
• Huge clean up crew that will need to be rehomed before their death fuels more algae.
• Light intensity and spectrum adjustment

Pick your poison!
Im not sure there's anything else you can do to solve your algae problem.
The problem isnt in the PO4 or the NO3. The algae has colonised the rocks, and you must kill it. All youre doing now is stunting its growth
Id suggest to treat the individual patches of algae with small doses of food grade hydrogen peroxide. But thats also a chemical.
It is a topical treatment tho that you can do outside of your tank. If your corals arent glued to the rocks that is.

 

[rb3]

I agree with mdb_talon. All you need is time and consistent husbandry. 4 fish is not a lot even for a 10 gallon. I would buy a lawnmower blenny to your clean up crew. Fish poop is coral food. My blenny didn’t care much for fish food and only ate algae off the rocks so if it’s increasing your feeding, there’s no need. I’m 2.5 months in with my new tank and dealing with the ugly stage myself. I’m dosing microbacter clean and it hasn’t shown any negative affects with my corals. It’s stocked as I am currently fragging some of my corals from my old tank. If you’re worried, dose half what’s recommended. I don’t recommend vibrant for a young tank though.

 

[jhuntstl]

You don't need to dump in a huge CUC that's going to ultimately starve. You need to keep a few effective GHA eaters alive while you continue manual removal.

 

[Downfall]

Would you consider a hang on algae turf scrubber? I think ice cap makes a HOB option and probably others. An ATS would likely out compete the algae in the tank over time. Trying to stay within your chemical free natural solutions criteria.

 

[sp1187]

mexican turbo's eat everything.
more effective than herbivore fish that pick here and there.
they will clean the rock completely.

no advice on chasing numbers.